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Oly lifts.....Sean/Dan/Peter/etc...
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C. Smith View Drop Down
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Points: 6661443 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/13/11 at 10:40am
Sean - great point re: knee flexion and hamstring tension in the WOB.  I know I have been guilty of that. 

Ryan - my days are hardly set in stone, although it must appear that way.  I have always advocated taking rest when needed, just ask Myles.  I have even called my training the "Max Rest Principle".  As for going out and throwing, lol, I would have to alter my two days a week even more if I actually did practice.  Throwing is a CNS killer, and I'd never be able to bang as hard in the weight room if I had to practice also. 

Not to mention, and Gallagher and I have talked about this too, I think most people who have done this for years and years don't need the time practicing that they actually spend.  I think they are just scared they will lose something if they don't.  Well, I haven't.  It's like riding a bike imo.      
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Lovin this thread.
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This thread may have also convinced me that Craig Smith is far smarter than he looks.
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Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

This thread may have also convinced me that Craig Smith is far smarter than he looks.


Shhhhhh, no need to let the cat out of the bag imo.

Me lift heavy things.
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It is so easy for me to see someone else training and fix them, but seeing myself and my errors is so hard.  So in the effort of seeing what I am doing I use a sounding board with someone who has a similar style of training and knows me.  C is that person 99% of the time, and I would say over the last few years now the thing we talk about the most is really resting and when.  Learning to pick your spot is just as important as what you pick to do.  
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Originally posted by Silverback Silverback wrote:

It is so easy for me to see someone else training and fix them, but seeing myself and my errors is so hard.  So in the effort of seeing what I am doing I use a sounding board with someone who has a similar style of training and knows me.  C is that person 99% of the time, and I would say over the last few years now the thing we talk about the most is really resting and when.  Learning to pick your spot is just as important as what you pick to do.  


This is why I think reading your own training log is important.  Once you get some time, and with it perspective, you can see the mistakes you've made.  And sometime you get to see that you did actual GOOD stuff without even realizing it.

It's also why I've gone away from training by feel, and sheduling everything out (I do leave a little wiggle room, of course).

3 up, then one down, is gold though.
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This stuff is amazing guys, thanks for this thread. I gotta say it may be one of the better ones ever started on this board. Can we get a sticky there Craig? I'd hate to see this one go to the way side anytime soon.

Now I have a question. Would a slower, slightly heavier version of the dimmel deadlift be a good thing? Keeping the deadlift form but staying under tension from the hang and going just below the knees?

Granted you might get the same thing from partials, but I would think keeping the tension on the body from the hang would be more like the WOB, Sheaf, Caber etc.
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At that point, why not just do WOB and hang cleans?
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A "slower, slightly heavier version" of a Dimel deadlift is basically an RDL.  The point of the DDL is the drop and speedy concentric return, which is why lighter weights are used. 

I'm not really a fan of the risk/reward of a DDL tbh.
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Another big factor in program success is whether or not you believe in it. 

So if you have to ask if a exercise should be included, odds are it shouldn't be.
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Originally posted by Josh Roslik Josh Roslik wrote:

Another big factor in program success is whether or not you believe in it. 

This is actually HUGE. If you 100% believe in what you are doing, you stay focused and get everything you can out of your training. if you start to question it, you'll start to wander and pretty soon your training is back to being a complete mashup.
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Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:


Me lift heavy things.



hahahaha, made me
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I read the training logs and must say they are very helpful. Most of my life I just did gymrat training (Crossfit with weights).
It has been/is an education to see the difference between training to stay healthy and training with a particular athletic goal in mind.

Changes I have made because of this msg board/training log;

--Focus on complex movements/whole body lifts. I am beginning to see why Ed Coan never does curls, he doesnt have to.

--Training frequency. 3 trips to the gym now is a heavy week.

2 things I wonder about though;
Is it possible to do a reasonable amt of cardio on "off" days without sacrificing gains? To me reasonable means 3-5 days a week of 30 mins or more getting the heartrate up to 75%+. I love my heart and lungs, and want them to be healthy and strong first and foremost.
And...ligament/tendon health. Opinions on the difference between moderate and frequent lifting versus heavy/intense but less frequent?

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I have a Mio Heart Rate monitor (no chest strap necessary) and I put together weight workouts 45 min - 60 min in duration.  I take a 60 second rest between sets.  I keep track of my heart rate post set, take my rest and record heart rate.  After 60 minutes of this, my median heart rate was higher than when I do a piece of cardio equipment AND I got stronger.  I use this on a lighter day and use only bodybuilding lifts rather than my powerlifts or olympic lifts.  Just a better idea for cardio.  You don't have to do continuous cardio but interval training.  Go out and do sprints with a certain upper heart rate and walk between until your heart rate reaches a certain lower end.  Do prowler sled pushes/pulls this way too.  Push/Pull your car this way if you don't have a prowler.  Do sandbag lifts and drops.  Do tire flips or sledgehammer swings onto a tire or something.  Just do something more useful than always using cardio equipment.  This would be a rest day.  Work your sympathetic nervous system, then your para sympathetic nervous system then active rest/cardio/gymnastics even!  (I have my javelin throwers do this!)
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Originally posted by Tim P Tim P wrote:

2 things I wonder about though;
Is it possible to do a reasonable amt of cardio on "off" days without sacrificing gains? To me reasonable means 3-5 days a week of 30 mins or more getting the heartrate up to 75%+. I love my heart and lungs, and want them to be healthy and strong first and foremost.
And...ligament/tendon health. Opinions on the difference between moderate and frequent lifting versus heavy/intense but less frequent?

Cardio for health purposes can take two forms (don't worry about the heart rate): moderate of "talk but can't sing", or vigorous of "can only say a few words before having to take a breath". 

For moderate, recommendations are 150 minutes per week, done for at least 10 minutes at a time.  For vigorous, 75 minutes per week, done for at least 10 minutes at a time.  Can mix/match, but how? 

Since both are done for at least 10 minutes at a time, count vigorous for twice as long toward a 150 minute weekly total (vigorous has twice the oxygen and metabolic demand of moderate).'

Intervals can be great time savers.  As long as you can honestly say you meet the above "talk test" criteria, your "cardio" can range from simple brisk walking for a moderate day to vigorous sled dragging or kb work for another day.

Teresa Merrick, Ph.D./Bellevue, NE
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Originally posted by john gallagher john gallagher wrote:

I have a Mio Heart Rate monitor (no chest strap necessary) and I put together weight workouts 45 min - 60 min in duration.  I take a 60 second rest between sets.  I keep track of my heart rate post set, take my rest and record heart rate.  After 60 minutes of this, my median heart rate was higher than when I do a piece of cardio equipment AND I got stronger.  I use this on a lighter day and use only bodybuilding lifts rather than my powerlifts or olympic lifts.  Just a better idea for cardio.  You don't have to do continuous cardio but interval training.  Go out and do sprints with a certain upper heart rate and walk between until your heart rate reaches a certain lower end.  Do prowler sled pushes/pulls this way too.  Push/Pull your car this way if you don't have a prowler.  Do sandbag lifts and drops.  Do tire flips or sledgehammer swings onto a tire or something.  Just do something more useful than always using cardio equipment.  This would be a rest day.  Work your sympathetic nervous system, then your para sympathetic nervous system then active rest/cardio/gymnastics even!  (I have my javelin throwers do this!)


So run the heart rate up for a short time, then use the heart rate as the indicator as to when to start again?  That to me sounds like the best way to do it, let the body tell you when it is ready.
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A lot of guys fear the cardio for getting smaller, but I always look at this, in terms of cardio:

You never see fat, weak, slow sprinters.

Interval training kicks ass. Specifically, yours.

I still like the regular bouts of just boring old cardio, but usually just as a warmup for an extended stretching session.

But don't be afraid of sweating to stay healthy. It's not cool to be out of breath walking to the beer tent.
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Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

A lot of guys fear the cardio for getting smaller, but I always look at this, in terms of cardio:

You never see fat, weak, slow sprinters.

Interval training kicks ass. Specifically, yours.

I still like the regular bouts of just boring old cardio, but usually just as a warmup for an extended stretching session.

But don't be afraid of sweating to stay healthy. It's not cool to be out of breath walking to the beer tent.



Fully agree!!! I run or do cardio all week long. I hit a world record log press last march and was running 5 days a week then. Did 374 at 227lbs bw. You can be strong and have good cardio, it just takes getting used to and people are afraid of that initial strength loss. I can tell you though, it only lasts a couple weeks and you are right back to where you were. I recover faster between workouts when my conditioning is high through the week too.
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John, thanks so much for the coaching tip on the snatch with the chest over the bar.  It helped me very much. 

I am afraid of cardio.  I have issues about skinny and don't want to be. 
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Always glad to help Myles.  I am glad it did help!
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Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

A lot of guys fear the cardio for getting smaller, but I always look at this, in terms of cardio:

You never see fat, weak, slow sprinters.

Interval training kicks ass. Specifically, yours.

I still like the regular bouts of just boring old cardio, but usually just as a warmup for an extended stretching session.

But don't be afraid of sweating to stay healthy. It's not cool to be out of breath walking to the beer tent.



Edited for whiners
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Nice way to kill a thread.
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Kill a thread? Really? 
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I DID like the small addition of your accomplishments right after the "don't need any more ego boosts" comment, though.

It's kind of like saying "I don't mean to brag but seriously, it's massive. Like a baby's arm holding an orange."

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In before the lock!
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i went back and re-reread alot of this thread.......thanks guys...
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It basically comes down to stability the heavier the weight the wider one
goes, some guys keep there feet close some don't. Power clean/ power
snatch are assistant lifts the newer you are to the Oly lifts the less bend at
the knee, feet get spread out wide to catch the bar instead of sinking under
the bar. Speed under the bar is real important to a Oly lifter, not real
important to a Gamer. If you want your tech. looked at go to a Oly coach and
they really will pick you apart. Oly lifters have more finess, it's their sport it's
what they do day in and day out. I use to watch Mario Martinez and Ken Clark
lift. Mario had bent arms on the pull phase of the snatch, bad habit never
was able to break it, before he had a coach he developed that habit. Ken
Clark made it look easy really nice to watch him lift.
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