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Shannon Hartnett test’s positive..!

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Coach Mac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/12/05 at 5:59am
I posted this release under the "Coach Mac"
post...perhaps this will alleviate the confusion using
the DIRECT approach:


http://www.usantidoping.org/files/active/resources/
press_rel eases/
USADA%20Press%20Release%20-%20Hartnett.pdf

The throwing...lifitng...world is very small...I was told
back in late May -early June that there was a positive
A) sample from a female competitior in the
games...no names were given.

What to do about this:

Changing a NEGATIVE into a POSITIVE....The fall out
will know proabably take 2-3 years to get the
confidence back in the womens class (specifically at
Pleasanton)...can't we
VOLUNTARILY test the top 10-athletes that are
ranked ?

I think the P.R. would be phenominal...we would be
the ONLY Strength sport in the world to do this on a
VOLUNTARY basis...I'll give my help and time and
SUPPORT !!!


Edited by Coach Mac
Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 6:27am

I guess I will echo Craigs post earlier with a "who cares?" Shannon is no longer involved in our sport...

On the other hand though I will say this: "Shannon,

WHAT THE F%#k !?..."

 

regardless of all this - shannon was an amazing athlete to watch and I was a huge fan of her talents and she was always supercool to me and others at the games - She is obviously a legend even if she was taking advantage of the unbelievably laid back nature of our sport...it does unfortunately deflate the bubble of her accomplishments ...maybe she didn't start until she started lifting competitively - she certainly didn't need the advantage in Highland Games...

 



Edited by will barron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 6:32am

Will,

  I think the young lady who lost first place to her at Pleasanton in September might care. There is both prize money and prestige involved.

Cheers,

Carlos



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 6:42am
Since no one cares anymore why don't I just get juiced to the gills, win a bunch of big games, kick everyones ass, then leave the sport, go try tiddlywinks and get tested positive and be considered a supercool guy, with great athletic ability, and be a legend!  If I would have known this when I started my track career and highland games career I would have done that and not wasted time trying to develop GOD given talent and try to win some games.  Damn I hate wasting time!  Since no one cares and we need to move on to more important issues. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 6:58am

you geeks...thats not what I meant...

what I'm saying is caring about shannons test is technically like caring who tested positive in the NFL - different sport...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 7:00am

On the other hand though I will say this: "Shannon,

WHAT THE F%#k !?..."

 

maybe this part of my post was a little vague???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 7:15am

Will,

  Rule #20 from the NASGA website (emphasis added by me):

"Drug testing of any competitors is left to the discretion and capabilities of each Games being competed in. If a competitor is banned/suspended as a result of a drug test he will not be allowed to compete until the ban/suspension is over. Bans/suspensions from other sports will be enforced. Competitors banned/suspended from another sport will not be allowed to compete in a Games. "

Cheers,

Carlos



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 7:29am

Gallagher, i say go for it   If that's all it takes....

Besides, you already are a legend.

I still don't care, nothing will change the processes of what we do, whether there is 1 positve test or 100.  I guarantee you though, when i get beat on the field, that is one excuse you'll NEVER hear me utter about someone else.  I guess it bothers me that people always want to make excuses, always want a scapegoat.  When i get beat, it's because I didn't work hard enough.  I didn't train hard enough.  I didn't practice enough.  It's never, well Johnny Joe Nothing did this and this and this....geez....   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 7:35am

Craig,

  I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone is making excuses. This is about a failed drug test. There is supposed to be a consequence for a failed drug test. Simple as that.

Cheers,

Carlos



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 7:46am

Perhaps I was jumping the gun with my response, but you know what was coming   And that consequence is evident.  She is banned from weightlifting and doesn't even compete in HG anymore.  Also, because she was + in May, does not necesasrily mean she was in Setptember (yes, i realize the technicality of this statement).

I just don't see how one can deduce that the "confidence" is now gone from the womens class, and it will take 2-3 years to rebuild that.  The amatuer positive from Pleasanton a few years back didn't take any "confidence" out of the amatuer class.  And believe me, all the top Am's knew about it.

This kind of stuff happens all the time in sports, and 5 mintues later it's gone...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Bogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 8:25am
Originally posted by Borges Borges wrote:

Will,

  I think the young lady who lost first place to her at Pleasanton in September might care. There is both prize money and prestige involved.

 

Well said Carlos, I don't think people fully realize the impact cheaters have on their sport.  If you have ever taken illegal performance enhancing drugs you have cheated.  The "2nd place lady" at Pleasanton actually won that comp but was deprived of the ability to enjoy her victory that day by someone who cheated.  It's a shame.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 9:07am
Although I've never met Shannon, I've seen her throw a few times, and we've exchanged a few emails over the past couple of years. I like her as a person, and I respect her tremendously as an athlete. I hope this isn't true. I certainly won't condemn her alleged actions without first hearing her side of the story, whether she admits or denies drug use, and whether she intends to challenge the results of the test.

However, on strictly procedural grounds, as Carlos pointed out, NASGA rules require enforcing bans from other sports. This is a slightly confused issue, since the press release states the ban begins now, but also states that she must forfeit "any results and winnings" since the date of the test. If that is upheld, then Mindy Lincoln should be the current US heavy events champion.

This is made more complicated by the fact that the SHA rules (written by Carlos) do not include any statement on drug testing, or on enforcement of bans from other sports. The drug testing waiver posted on the Pleasanton games web site talks about testing, but not enforcement of bans from other sports. There may be no legal basis on which to take any action concerning the results of the US championships.

Leaving this specific case aside, this seems to be a very big hole that can be easily filled. No, we as a sport are not ready to begin serious drug testing. Too many financial and legal issues to overcome right now. But enforcement of outside bans can be done quickly and easily, especially now that the USADA and WADA exist, and the World Anti-Doping Code exists.

I would strongly encourage any sanctioning body for the games to, at least, adopt language similar to the NASGA rule on enforcement of bans, and preferably to also adopt the World Anti-Doping Code as their standard, even if at the moment we can't implement testing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Hadley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 9:18am
How come we're publically outing the test results of a fellow athlete? Is it any of our business?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 9:39am

Greg,

  The USADA put out the press release. Not anyone here. It even made the local papers here in California.

Adam,

  You are correct. When I wrote my rule set they were INTENTIONALLY written to only govern the conduct of the events. Drug testing, classes, record keeping, etc. were all left to the individual organizations. Technically, even NASGA rule 20 doesn't apply because it is gender specific to males. On the other hand, trying to avoid doing the right thing because of a technicality would only do more harm.

Everyone,

  As far as guilt is concerned, no one gets banned for using illegal substances, you get banned for failing a drug test. It seems a minor detail but is in fact very important here because there is no point in arguing about whether or not she was using, only if she failed the drug test.



Edited by Borges
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 11:01am
I know what you meant Will.  I just wanted to stir the pot and see my new avatar picture! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Genetic Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 2:28pm

She did not test positive for steroids

She tested positive for steroid metabolites

There is a difference

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Hadley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 3:07pm
I understand the press release, that seems to be standard procedure. But why are people compelled to purposely put it on a internet chat board? Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression certain people want to drag Shannon's name through the mud. That doesn't seem appropriate to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 3:37pm
Certain people's motivations may be open to question - I don't know about that. Personally, I wish nothing but the best for Shannon. But this does potentially impact the outcome of the U.S. Women's National Championships, so it's a legitimate subject of discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big MAC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 7:12pm
You always get caught out, sooner or later, its just a matter of when.

Coach Mac doesn't like cheating, thats why its up here. Be interesting what happens if she wants to do another highland games. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/05 at 10:44pm
When I was involved in the Games, I was always a proponent of a regular, consistent testing policy. A reasonable debate on testing is fine. However, I see little benefit in throwing names out there, because it then becomes about the person, not the policy. For the record, I have known Coach Mac for over 30 years, and Shannon for going on 16 years, and consider them both to be friends. But its not about them, its about the sport. This will probably piss someone off, but to me, to use cost, or potential liability as an excuse not to test is a cop out. If you say you are going to test, then test. If you aren't, then save the cost of printing up the waiver forms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 1:41am
As far as talking about this is concerned: the Associated Press picked up the story, and it's in dozens of newspapers across the country (and Canada).

One newspaper, in her home town, has a longer story, and talks about her other sports besides weightlifting. There's a photo of her practicing with a caber. In that article, Shannon denies having used stanozolol. I hope that's true.

http://www.marinij.com/marin/ci_3209523
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 4:17am
Just another thought before I head for the golf course.I competed in the "A" class from 1989 thru 1997, and competed in all the "major" games on the West Coast, including Santa Rosa/Pleasanton. From 1990 thru 1994, I won over 20 titles, including Sacramento (twice), Costa Mesa (twice), Campbell (twice), San Diego, Pozo (twice),Yuba Sutter, Chino, Arizona, and the Western States Am in Colorado in 1992. During that time period, guess how many times I was tested. Zero, zip, none. To me, that seems a bit hypocritical in a sport that claims to have an anti-drug policy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 4:33am
Jason....testing positive for steroid metabolites means you ingested steroids(whether knowingly or un-knowingly) right??as long as chain of custody is intact-which I don't think is a problem here as oly.weightlifting is governed by the USOC and they do have an idea of how to admisnter tests...fight it if your not guilty Shanon-you are a legend in strength sports and if its not so say it with a fight 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 6:20am

Originally posted by agm_ agm_ wrote:

Certain people's motivations may be open to question - I don't know about that. Personally, I wish nothing but the best for Shannon. But this does potentially impact the outcome of the U.S. Women's National Championships, so it's a legitimate subject of discussion.

I'll echo Adam's sentiments here. I've known Shannon for a number of years and hold her in high regard. I can tell you that as a field judge the only athlete who is more pleasant to work with is the legendary John Ross. I don't think it is proper for anyone to put her down or toss around a lot of allegations. She has done more for the women's games than anyone else and deserves a load of respect for that.

On the other hand, as Adam notes, there is a legitimate question of fairness to Mindy Lincoln as concerns the outcome at Pleasanton. I hope that the CCSF will address this in a timely manner (clearly it would be irresponsible of them to respond without first talking to those involved and learning all the facts).

Cheers,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big MAC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 9:57am
I'm just perturbed about the marin article. You take a cortisone shot, you declare it on the drug testing form and when they test you, the cortisone will show up. How Stanozol got into a cortisone injection is beyond me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by big MAC big MAC wrote:

I'm just perturbed about the marin article. You take a cortisone shot,
you declare it on the drug testing form and when they test you, the
cortisone will show up. How Stanozol got into a cortisone injection is
beyond me.



She didn't say that - she said it could have been part of it. She also said it could have been nutritional supplements. She says she doesn't know. The fact is, most people who are busted for steroids make some claim like that. But in a few cases, it's actually true. The IOC or WADA (don't remember which) tested a bunch of legal supplements and found that many were contaminated with banned substances. That doesn't exonerate them - the rules say you're responsible for what's in your body, whether you intended to put it there or not. But clearly, there are people who fail tests without intending to cheat.

On the other side of the argument, there are only a few of those, and far, far more who lie about it, and I doubt that anyone but Shannon knows the truth in her case. Just be aware that it can happen.

One interesting precedent, also involving stanozolol: This was the drug that Ben Johnson was busted for. He and his coaches have basically admitted that he was using a bunch of different drugs at the time he was caught. The strange thing is, they claim stanozolol wasn't one of them. They say he wasn't caught for the drugs he used, and was caught for something he never took.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt Jackson, R. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 2:42pm

Ok, just for us running a Highland games and wont to know. How much is drug testing per athlete? What are the names of the approved labs, for field sports and how are they contacted

? Can any one provide this information to me so I can pass it off to the Association of Scottish Games and Festivals and The Scottish Coalition?

 

The Scottish Coalition is composed of eight national organizations serving the Scottish-American community, principally through research, long-term planning, and as a resource for information and guidance. Its shared vision is that fruitful and mutually supportive relationships can be forged between individuals and organizations in the United States and in Scotland, in order to assure that the unique Scottish identity and heritage shall become better known and more widely celebrated for the benefit of peoples throughout the world.

 

The Association of Scottish Games and Festivals, was founded in 1981 in a spirit of cooperation, the Association of Scottish Games and Festivals (ASGF) provides its member organizations with a clearinghouse of ideas, resources, and information to assist them in the production of Highland Games. Like the member organizations them selves, ASGF sprouted from the vision of a few and fed by the truly continental in scope. ASGF is committed to the fundamental purpose of cooperation for the betterment of each of its members through sharing experiences and providing counsel. Additionally, the ASGF provides a forum for representatives of other Scottish cultural societies. At each meeting, outside representatives from Scottish groups such as the Pipe Band Association, Scottish Clans Societies, Highland Dancing people, Tartan and Genealogy experts, Heavy Athletics, and others are invited to participate by exchanging information and cooperating to solve problems or to create opportunities for improvement. Its annual meeting alternates from East to West for the convenience of its widespread membership. The Presidency of the ASGF likewise rotates biennially from East to West. Location and date of each annual meeting is set by the Executive Board. Every member Games is strongly encouraged to underwrite the cost of sending a representative to the annual meeting as a proven, worthwhile investment in the future of their event. All member organizations must have as their general purpose the furthering of the culture, heritage, and traditions of Scotland. To this end, they must present a Scottish games or festival that includes some aspects of Scottish culture, heritage, of traditions through offering competitions or demonstrations. Membership in the ASGF is necessary in order to qualify for the ASGF liability insurance program.

 

 

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Edited by Sgt Jackson, R.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 3:09pm
Hey Adam-I've read up a bit on Charlie Francis (ben Johnson's coach)and he doesn't claim that Ben didn't take Stanzonal but was past the clearance date & to further the conspiracy the IOC claimed that stanzanol was found in the sample-not stanzanol metabolites which would be excreted if you took the drug....also the gym that I work at has  very close ties to a major supplement company-we usually get the alpha or beta supplemts to test run,etc & all the contaminated supplements that involved "false positives"on drug screens involved nandrolone not stanzanol(this usually results from companies that produced pro-hormones and also other nutritional supplements in the same machinery)just some food for thought
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JISurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/05 at 4:59pm

That's rather unfortunate about Shannon.  I've been honored to meet her twice and both times she was a class act, even nicer than a lot of people in the games.  I had heard some bad things about her in the past, and I first had a negative vibe towards her in the beginning, but it all changed once I finally got to meet with her face to face.  Plus, I'd rather base my judgement on her from personal experinces. 

Sure I don't know her like some of the folks out west and others who have thrown with her a lot more, but I felt I would give my opinion(since everyone and their mother is now) cause I did get a chance to talk/hang/relax with her for a short while.  No, I'm not trying to kiss her a$$ cause she was a superior thrower than most, but I still think highly of her personally.  She was cool to be around with, the 4 days I was in the games with her.  Hell, everybodies got some sort of "dirty laundry".  Sometimes though, it gets out into the public.  It sucks, it really does.

As for her athletic endeavors...

I know people are going to use this as a vehicle for a stronger alliance between the many different organizations in the games and drug testing.  Everyone knows my thoughts on those two subjects, so I won't waste their time again. 

 

eh...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/05 at 4:43am

dwood is correct. There is some science behind the false positives for nandrolone. Never heard of any scientific evidence backing a false positive for Winstrol. Besides, as Adam points out, it doesn't matter how it got in to your system. If you test positive then you are banned. Intentions are immaterial.

Cheers,

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