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Zolks winning throw? |
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will barron 
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 Topic: Zolks winning throw?Posted: 5/06/08 at 3:29am |
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anyone know how high Mr. 18' went in the weight over the bar to win the event this weekend?...Did Sean finally get over that 17' he kept barely missing?
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LarryBrock
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 4:13am |
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zolk cleared 16'6" sean cleared 16' on 1st attempt i cleared 16 on third attempt, zolk tried 17'3" missed three times
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"No man Is entirely worthless, he can always serve as a bad example" Brian Oldfield
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will barron
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 4:36am |
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wow - nice Larry - was that a standing pr?
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toddm
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:25am |
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I think this was Zolk's 2nd attempt at 17' 3"
The WOB was the last event and all of the athletes were showing the effects of fairly high temps and very high humidity. I love how this pic shows Mike about 6" off of the ground!!!  |
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Todd McDougal
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LarryBrock
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:26am |
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it tied my standing pr so i was chuffed
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"No man Is entirely worthless, he can always serve as a bad example" Brian Oldfield
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Mr. Natural
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:43am |
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What, no happy legs?
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S McCracken
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:58am |
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If every game had a WOB bar like that I would not bend them all the time.
 that is one beefy contraption.
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Steve Conway
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 6:26am |
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That picture could be an argument for knock-off bars
 You could hit that with a truck and it would still be there, was it 17'3" to the middle or the end?
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Mike Wills
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 6:51am |
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You can see where the tape is on the left side. Why would you really want to make throwing a 56# weight any harder? I think that it's enough to get that beast high enough to go over a bar...and if there isn't enough force applied the weight can't hit the top regardless of whether it is a knockoff bar or a concrete wall.
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Steve Conway
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 7:28am |
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The outside end of the bar appears to be bent down. It's not about making the event any harder, it's about making it accurate. I've seen fixed bars (heavy pvc) bend down quite a bit when hit with a wt. and the wt. rolls over them. When you go over a knock-off bar it's because the wt. actually went over the bar at the ht. it was set for. Let's say an athlete sets a record at a certain height (19') on a knock-off bar and then a different athlete throws at another games at 19'1" on a fixed bar. He hits the bar, it bends and the wt. rolls over it. New record? How would you like to be the first athlete?
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phatmiked
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 7:47am |
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Who is that handsome devil who appears to be sniffing Zolk's right armpit???
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agm_
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:04am |
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There is a slight permanent bend out at the end of that
WOB rig, the result of years of abuse. I'm not sure if it's fixable. At some of the games where it's used, the ground under it is probably further off level than the bar. That bar will NOT bend for a weight rolling over it. Here's an unintentional test of that bar about three years ago: 
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toddm
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:15am |
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For what it is worth, the WOB rig was leaning away from the athlete. The 'crossbar' (a piece of oval aluminum) is bent at the point the angled support meets it. It is hard to say how much it is bent, but it appeared to be about 2 inches or so. The lean of the upright meant that the bend was the highest point (rather than having a sag in the middle).
Personally, I prefer something with two uprights to define the throwing area. Given the issues, we have to make concessions...the equipment must be strong, portable, easy to set up, take down and operate. The WOB is much less boring for the crowd if a fixed bar is used, but I cringe every time I see a weight pull a crossbar down, go over and be called a good throw. The angle of the photo is a bit deceiving. This is a good topic for rational, thoughtful discussion, however. |
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Todd McDougal
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greynolds177
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:30am |
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I think we will stick with wooden bars as our spectators love to see them smashed.
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A.D.Inverness 1999-present; MWC2006, World Championships 2007, MWC2009 and MWC2014. Organiser of Guinness World Record for Caber Tossing. Scottish Masters International Hall of Fame Inductee 2014.
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Mike Wills
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:33am |
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The rig that is in the picture definitely doesn't bend down to let the weight over. My thinking, though, is if the weight has bent the bar down, that means that the weight was thrown high enough to be on top of the bar...which I think is the point. To me the knock off bar adds an additional arbitrary level of difficulty to an already difficult event.
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dWood
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:55am |
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+1 Mike....how did you throw@ Bridgeport???sore??
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JUST BRING IT /
SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
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=Travis=
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:56am |
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This has been my thinking as well. I have thrown and had the weight come back down on top the bar and it always seems to go the wrong way once it hits. |
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Borges
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 9:52am |
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That's probably why it didn't go over. |
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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Steve Conway
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:02am |
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My example was with a pvc bar. I've seen them get hit on the side/bottom hard enough to bow them out and down; then the wt. rolls over it. Todd's point about having two uprights to define the throwing area is also food for thought. With this apparatus, if the wt. seems to go high enough but is past the end of the bar does it count?
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agm_
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:09am |
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No. |
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Mike Wills
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:14am |
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If the thrower wants to play with the end of the bar, they are doing so at their own risk. It has to go over the bar. A little flexible antenna at the end might be a good thing.
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McSanta
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:49am |
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First off, awesome throws!!! I hope my comments are not taken as trying to diminish those throws, they are not meant to. I am waiting for some one to break my field record at 14' for the last 6+ years, the games attracks throwers who can do it but most games day are sunny, hot, humid, and near the end of the season.
+1
One Side Standards: A salute to Thom's ingenuity, he took the guess work out of where the other side of the cross bar was by adding a vertical piece of wood in which the implement had to be inside of to count. He also had two measuring tapes to make sure the cross bar was level. I have used the bungees to connect rope to cross bar without thinking about the competitive factor and may have to rethink there use. |
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Mark McVey
"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin |
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Borges
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 11:07am |
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It is important to separate the issues in a discussion like this. First of all, in a competition the only real issue is the order in which competitors are eliminated as the height of the bar goes up. You don't even need a tape measure because you don't really have to know how high the bar was. Start high, and then move it up a fair bit after each round until you have a winner. The only time accuracy is an issue is for a record attempt. That is a whole different issue. Take a look at all the rules for records in T&F if you want to get a clue about how hard it is to get your mind wrapped around those issues. It gets so complex that I deliberately did not include any mention of records or record setting in the rule set that I wrote. |
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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Steve Conway
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 1:44pm |
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Carlos, I agree about records and have said before that they are open to question... The only sure way to determine a clear winner is that they compete together on the same day with the same implements and the same judge. That said; rankings are based on records and distances, many times who gets invited to which games (especially championships) relys on where they stand in the rankings.
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jgrace
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 2:16pm |
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Which can certainly be affected by whether they have to throw over a knock-off bar.... |
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Wayne Hill
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 3:16pm |
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My WOB rig uses a 1" steel pipe as the crossbar (1.3" OD), supported at both ends. (The rig is kind of like Jeff Loosle's approach, but I've upgraded the uprights with 1-1/2" heavy wall conduit.) The bar doesn't deflect visibly when it's smacked. We use up-haul lines to pull the bar an inch or so above the mark, then tension the down-haul lines to set the height. There isn't much give in it after that.
My biggest problem is that they aren't high enough for more than about 23'. I'm seriously considering adding height for this year's masters competition at Loon... -Wayne |
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"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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thegnome
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 3:31pm |
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Wayne is like the Q (from Bond movies for you yunguns) of the New England Highland Games world. He's always got the coolest toys.
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Andrew G
Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!! |
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dWood
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 4:03pm |
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we want new gadgets
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JUST BRING IT /
SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
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caber catcher
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:22pm |
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To me the WOB is exactly like the high jump - same scoring system - same amount of trials - only difference is we use a weight instead of a person. Imagine the outcry if the high jump started using a fixed bar ? I rest my case. |
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life might not be the party we had hoped for, but while were here we should dance.
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greynolds177
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Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:47pm |
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The High jumpers would get hurt. Imagine Fosbury Flopping on to a fixed and very solid metal pole! Ouch
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A.D.Inverness 1999-present; MWC2006, World Championships 2007, MWC2009 and MWC2014. Organiser of Guinness World Record for Caber Tossing. Scottish Masters International Hall of Fame Inductee 2014.
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Mike Wills wrote: