Zolks winning throw?
Printed From: Nasgaweb
Category: Nasgaweb Forums
Forum Name: General
Forum Discription: This forum is for general discussion about Scottish Heavy Athletics.
URL: http://www.nasgaweb.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6960
Printed Date: 3/27/26 at 12:26am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.11 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Zolks winning throw?
Posted By: will barron
Subject: Zolks winning throw?
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 3:29am
|
anyone know how high Mr. 18' went in the weight over the bar to win the event this weekend?...Did Sean finally get over that 17' he kept barely missing?
|
Replies:
Posted By: LarryBrock
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 4:13am
|
zolk cleared 16'6" sean cleared 16' on 1st attempt i cleared 16 on third attempt, zolk tried 17'3" missed three times
------------- "No man Is entirely worthless, he can always serve as a bad example" Brian Oldfield |
Posted By: will barron
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 4:36am
| wow - nice Larry - was that a standing pr? |
Posted By: toddm
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:25am
|
I think this was Zolk's 2nd attempt at 17' 3" The WOB was the last event and all of the athletes were showing the effects of fairly high temps and very high humidity. I love how this pic shows Mike about 6" off of the ground!!!  ------------- Todd McDougal |
Posted By: LarryBrock
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:26am
|
it tied my standing pr so i was chuffed ------------- "No man Is entirely worthless, he can always serve as a bad example" Brian Oldfield |
Posted By: Mr. Natural
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:43am
| What, no happy legs? |
Posted By: S McCracken
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 5:58am
If every game had a WOB bar like that I would not bend them all the time. that is one beefy contraption. ------------- North American Highlander Ohio Chair www.nahighlander.com |
Posted By: Steve Conway
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 6:26am
That picture could be an argument for knock-off bars  You could hit that with a truck and it would still be there, was it 17'3" to the middle or the end?
|
Posted By: Mike Wills
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 6:51am
|
You can see where the tape is on the left side. Why would you really want to make throwing a 56# weight any harder? I think that it's enough to get that beast high enough to go over a bar...and if there isn't enough force applied the weight can't hit the top regardless of whether it is a knockoff bar or a concrete wall.
------------- |
Posted By: Steve Conway
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 7:28am
| The outside end of the bar appears to be bent down. It's not about making the event any harder, it's about making it accurate. I've seen fixed bars (heavy pvc) bend down quite a bit when hit with a wt. and the wt. rolls over them. When you go over a knock-off bar it's because the wt. actually went over the bar at the ht. it was set for. Let's say an athlete sets a record at a certain height (19') on a knock-off bar and then a different athlete throws at another games at 19'1" on a fixed bar. He hits the bar, it bends and the wt. rolls over it. New record? How would you like to be the first athlete? |
Posted By: phatmiked
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 7:47am
Who is that handsome devil who appears to be sniffing Zolk's right armpit???  ------------- |
Posted By: agm_
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:04am
|
There is a slight permanent bend out at the end of that
WOB rig, the result of years of abuse. I'm not sure if it's fixable. At some of the games where it's used, the ground under it is probably further off level than the bar. That bar will NOT bend for a weight rolling over it. Here's an unintentional test of that bar about three years ago: 
|
Posted By: toddm
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:15am
|
For what it is worth, the WOB rig was leaning away from the athlete. The 'crossbar' (a piece of oval aluminum) is bent at the point the angled support meets it. It is hard to say how much it is bent, but it appeared to be about 2 inches or so. The lean of the upright meant that the bend was the highest point (rather than having a sag in the middle). Personally, I prefer something with two uprights to define the throwing area. Given the issues, we have to make concessions...the equipment must be strong, portable, easy to set up, take down and operate. The WOB is much less boring for the crowd if a fixed bar is used, but I cringe every time I see a weight pull a crossbar down, go over and be called a good throw. The angle of the photo is a bit deceiving. This is a good topic for rational, thoughtful discussion, however. ------------- Todd McDougal |
Posted By: greynolds177
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:30am
|
I think we will stick with wooden bars as our spectators love to see them smashed. ------------- A.D.Inverness 1999-present; MWC2006, World Championships 2007, MWC2009 and MWC2014. Organiser of Guinness World Record for Caber Tossing. Scottish Masters International Hall of Fame Inductee 2014. |
Posted By: Mike Wills
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:33am
|
The rig that is in the picture definitely doesn't bend down to let the weight over. My thinking, though, is if the weight has bent the bar down, that means that the weight was thrown high enough to be on top of the bar...which I think is the point. To me the knock off bar adds an additional arbitrary level of difficulty to an already difficult event.
------------- |
Posted By: dWood
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:55am
|
+1 Mike....how did you throw@ Bridgeport???sore?? ------------- JUST BRING IT / SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
Posted By: =Travis=
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:56am
|
This has been my thinking as well. I have thrown and had the weight come back down on top the bar and it always seems to go the wrong way once it hits. ------------- |
Mike Wills wrote:Posted By: Borges
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 9:52am
|
That's probably why it didn't go over. ------------- Cheers, Carlos "Live free or die" |
Posted By: Steve Conway
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:02am
| My example was with a pvc bar. I've seen them get hit on the side/bottom hard enough to bow them out and down; then the wt. rolls over it. Todd's point about having two uprights to define the throwing area is also food for thought. With this apparatus, if the wt. seems to go high enough but is past the end of the bar does it count? |
Posted By: agm_
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:09am
No. |
Posted By: Mike Wills
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:14am
|
If the thrower wants to play with the end of the bar, they are doing so at their own risk. It has to go over the bar. A little flexible antenna at the end might be a good thing.
------------- |
Posted By: McSanta
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 10:49am
|
First off, awesome throws!!! I hope my comments are not taken as trying to diminish those throws, they are not meant to. I am waiting for some one to break my field record at 14' for the last 6+ years, the games attracks throwers who can do it but most games day are sunny, hot, humid, and near the end of the season.
+1
One Side Standards: A salute to Thom's ingenuity, he took the guess work out of where the other side of the cross bar was by adding a vertical piece of wood in which the implement had to be inside of to count. He also had two measuring tapes to make sure the cross bar was level. I have used the bungees to connect rope to cross bar without thinking about the competitive factor and may have to rethink there use. ------------- Mark McVey "The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin |
Posted By: Borges
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 11:07am
|
It is important to separate the issues in a discussion like this. First of all, in a competition the only real issue is the order in which competitors are eliminated as the height of the bar goes up. You don't even need a tape measure because you don't really have to know how high the bar was. Start high, and then move it up a fair bit after each round until you have a winner. The only time accuracy is an issue is for a record attempt. That is a whole different issue. Take a look at all the rules for records in T&F if you want to get a clue about how hard it is to get your mind wrapped around those issues. It gets so complex that I deliberately did not include any mention of records or record setting in the rule set that I wrote. ------------- Cheers, Carlos "Live free or die" |
Posted By: Steve Conway
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 1:44pm
| Carlos, I agree about records and have said before that they are open to question... The only sure way to determine a clear winner is that they compete together on the same day with the same implements and the same judge. That said; rankings are based on records and distances, many times who gets invited to which games (especially championships) relys on where they stand in the rankings. |
Posted By: jgrace
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 2:16pm
|
Which can certainly be affected by whether they have to throw over a knock-off bar.... ------------- |
Posted By: Wayne Hill
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 3:16pm
|
My WOB rig uses a 1" steel pipe as the crossbar (1.3" OD), supported at both ends. (The rig is kind of like Jeff Loosle's approach, but I've upgraded the uprights with 1-1/2" heavy wall conduit.) The bar doesn't deflect visibly when it's smacked. We use up-haul lines to pull the bar an inch or so above the mark, then tension the down-haul lines to set the height. There isn't much give in it after that. My biggest problem is that they aren't high enough for more than about 23'. I'm seriously considering adding height for this year's masters competition at Loon... -Wayne ------------- "We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby |
Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 3:31pm
|
Wayne is like the Q (from Bond movies for you yunguns) of the New England Highland Games world. He's always got the coolest toys.
------------- Andrew G Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!! |
Posted By: dWood
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 4:03pm
|
we want new gadgets ------------- JUST BRING IT / SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
Posted By: caber catcher
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:22pm
|
To me the WOB is exactly like the high jump - same scoring system - same amount of trials - only difference is we use a weight instead of a person. Imagine the outcry if the high jump started using a fixed bar ? I rest my case. ------------- life might not be the party we had hoped for, but while were here we should dance. |
Posted By: greynolds177
Date Posted: 5/06/08 at 8:47pm
|
The High jumpers would get hurt. Imagine Fosbury Flopping on to a fixed and very solid metal pole! Ouch
------------- A.D.Inverness 1999-present; MWC2006, World Championships 2007, MWC2009 and MWC2014. Organiser of Guinness World Record for Caber Tossing. Scottish Masters International Hall of Fame Inductee 2014. |
Posted By: Wayne Hill
Date Posted: 5/07/08 at 2:03am
What's funny about that is my company is now part of a British company that was formed by the privatization of the Ministry of Defence's research establishment (a bit like making a company out of Wright Patterson AFB, Patuxent River NAS, NASA, the National Labs, you name it). They chose a name that starts and ends with a Q for that very reason. ------------- "We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby |
Posted By: Crouch'sGroupie
Date Posted: 5/07/08 at 2:19am
|
Yeah, I was wondering what happened to the "happy legs" as well. That's classic and Mike's perfect signature thing. Kind of like Big Papi (Ortiz) spitting on his batting gloves before every pitch.
------------- Confucius say.... "Woman flying plane upside down, bound to crack up." |
Posted By: meat
Date Posted: 5/07/08 at 6:45am
|
Hey Todd. Thanks for posting the pic. Leaving the ground, BAD! That would be why I was out in front every time. Great to see you again. ------------- Let'em Fly, Brother!-The Polish Prince http://www.newenglandstrength.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.newenglandstrength.com/ |
Posted By: wallyworld
Date Posted: 5/07/08 at 11:07am
Steve, as you well know, knock-off bars used to be the rule and the standard. The bars that are in play these days are just to make the athletes happy (higher marks,) keep the audiences entertained (less time spent replacing the bar,) and make life easier for the Games' crew (eliminates trying to figure out how to replace that bar waayyy up there!) Had l not been "retired" when the uprights were replaced at the "Claw," we could very easily still be using the old knock-offs there. |