WOB Training

if you still cannot clear 14' every time you try, I would go out and just toss the wob ALOT. Its heavy enough to count as lifting - you'll be tired I promise. 2 x a week go out and just take throws - with maybe 30 sec rest between tosses until you start to feel tired. Just keep trying to throw higher every time. Your body will naturally discover what it has to do to throw higher.

if you can already power clean 250 or more - I would say focus more on tossing with correct technique...keep cleaning and tossing and you will still get stronger - but emphasize the throws.

Ask yourself these questions:

"Am I too weak to throw it that high?"

or

"Do I not have the technique to utilize my strength?"

If your weak, grow stronger, that one's easy.  If it is your technique then...more reps is not always better.  Especially if your reps are wrong.  You'll ingrain the wrong way even deeper. 

If you see a guy bending too much at his knees then he's not getting all that he can.  If you see him doing more of a pull then he's on to something (find a video of Sanford's 18 footer to see what I mean).  The timing of your pull can also be improved.  That will come with feel.

When I first started I was too weak (still am kind of). So I got stronger but I still sucked.  No matter how much I threw.  Then Sean showed me how to throw it right and I improved over a foot in like a week.  You'll feel it when it comes together just right.  It's like when you hit a baseball on the sweet spot or tackle a guy with perfect timing and you hear all of his wind go out and snot comes out of his nose.   

Brainmasher,

One thing you have to keep in mind when asking such questions is that one's height and the length of one's levers make a very significant difference.  For example, if you take two athletes who both power clean, say, 275 lbs but one is 6'4" with long arms and the other one is 5'9" with short arms, the taller athlete will have a significant advantage in the WOB (and most, if not all, throwing events).  To some extent, this is simply because the taller athlete is, in fact, more powerful despite the fact that the same weight was lifted, as the weight travelled farther.  In addition, the taller athlete has superior leverage. 

It is no accident that most of the best guys in the WOB have been tall - e.g. Woult Zijlstra, Paul Ferency, and Ben Plunknett are (were) all very tall, and even Matt Sandford is about 6'5" (in addition to be extremely explosive). 

This is not to say you can't be very successful in the WOB as a six footer (note RV), but you have to be stronger and more explosive than the taller guys.  Just something to keep in mind.

so as far as a training regiment is concerned, what are people doing?  Twice a week seems to be agreed upon, but how about number of throws?  To the point of fatigue or less than that.  It seems apparent that the consensus is the only way to improve is to practice, but then what are the most common/successful practice methods? 

Also, I have a 70 and 42lb weight, any suggestions on when to use those, if at all?  I guess I'm looking for points of a workout especially because there is a little bit on other threads about time in the season. It seems to me that the 70 could have some definite benefits in the areas of timing and strength, after all its pretty hard to force that weight to do anything it doesn't want.

will barron wrote: if you still cannot clear 14' every time you try, I would go out and just toss the wob ALOT. Its heavy enough to count as lifting - you'll be tired I promise.

Playing devil's advocate...newbies (counting myself and others I have seen) seem to rarely get over 12'.  Saying go out and throw until you hit 14' could cause someone harm.  From what I hear from throwers...shoulders seem to get lots of surgery in this sport.

Since I am a newbie, I will be happy to hit 12' or so solid my first time out.  Sitting outside and throwing all day will just tear up my shoulder since my body (ligaments/supplemental muscles) still needs to grow into this sport.

Running now before the weights are thrown at me.

I didn't mean to suggest throwing for hours and hours until someone needs to call the ambulance...

just practice the ACTUAL throw often -like 2-3 nights a week for maybe 20-30 minutes - we you're spent, head to the DVD VCR NASGA video section and watch how its done...if you see something in the video that makes sense suddenly - go right back out and try it.

thats how I did it and look how high I've thrown in the stand... 

15'6 p.r. and lots of knocked off 16' bars...aint bad...with a 280 lb power clean, 400 squat, 190 snatch, 500 dead...i seem to love telling how weak i am

You cant actually learn how to throw wob in the weight room. snatching something with a handle is totally different if the handle doesn't swing

a great starting drill to understand how the hips generate the pull is to just start swinging the weight back and forth with a relaxed shoulder and learn how to get the swing going higher using your hips and lower back. Just pump it back and forth. as for going for the pull, relax your hips as the weight falls and literally dive the hips down in sort of a scoop. Reach as far back in the hole as you can and start lifting with the head/shoulders and core. Jump squat as the weight passes the knees - then let the arm keep flying up past your head.

yell just as you straighten up and let go.

before I give my .02, I want to qualify (or lack there of) my advice.  I have only been throwing since Nov. 06 and I have cleared 12' a few times and hit a B field Record of 12'2" on Saturday.  I am only 5'10.5" with a not totally embarassing dl of 495 with just a belt (518 with a suit).

I throw all events every Saturday and lift thru the week.  On Saturdays we usaully end with WOB.  I start with the 56# and take probably 6-10 throws and then I will grab the 42# and keep going up for another 4-6 throws.  We also have a 75lb kettle bell that I have managed to clear 9' with.  The different weight all have different timing.  But the 42 teaches me to pull FAST and I have to pull HARD with the 75...hopefully making my 56# fast and hard!

I always throw the 56 the same way.  I get my heels right under the bar a little less than shoulder width apart (enough room to not clip my ankles with the weight...except that one time ).  The first swing I get the weight to about a 45* and then on second swing I get it to about 90* and then as the weight passes back I let it pull my arm as far back as possible and when it gets all the way back, I drop my hips (sit on the weight) then I drive my hips up and forward and I try to imagine my hips pushing my arm, which is pulling the weight.  At the same time I am rolling my shoulders back and looking up...then I just keep pulling to the top, and then release.  I don't jump but I do end up on my tip toes and get a good hard contraction in the calves when I get it right.

In the gym, I plan on doing more hang cleans as they feel most like the movement to me.

Not sure if that is worth anything to anybody, but it did give me a chance to talk about myself.

17/20 wrote: Try doing a Max snatch grip deadlift, with the back flat - this is a good indicator of your start strength as it relates to the Standing WT fr HT

Trying to answer my buddy's question, what, if any, are the thoughts about a max correlating to a height in the wob.  As in, would a 300lb snatch grip dead lift would be around 11 feet or so, or is this too weird of a question considering the height of the competitor as all ready discussed?

Also, excellent post UpChucker, just what I was looking for.  I really like what I'm getting from everybody so thank you all.  I am excited to start working on my form, especially the "sitting on the weight" part.  I really think that will help bring it all together.

Wayne Hill wrote: mcdonl wrote: Are my "poor" weights causing my low heights? No, but it's a good story. -Wayne

Damn.

Thanks Wayne!