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force question

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verewulf View Drop Down
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    Posted: 5/02/10 at 4:32am
I am not sure what section this belongs in but I will ask it here. Has anyone looked into the amount of force needed to clear weight for height. I guess what I am saying is if you can snatch x amount one handed you should be able to clear at a certain height with form and technical ability not being a factor?

Just thought it would be a good question.
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Joel Sim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joel Sim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/03/10 at 1:15am

I don't know if anyone has measured force while throwing wob. I'm not sure how you would do it. One could use a side view and graduated background to determine the speed of the implement over a measured time frame I suppose, but ultimatley I think the results would be skewed and useless to someone who did not possess the exact same techinique and levers.

Several guys have spent considerable time working w/ a tendo unit to monitor bar speed for various reasons. The first to come to mind are Bert Sorin & John Gallagher. However, I can't think of anyone who has successfully made a correlation between a weight moved @ a given speed in the gym "guaranteeing" a specific height in wob.

All in all there's not going to be a straightforward answer to strength = distance/hieght. In this sport there aren't quick answers for anyone. we all find the limits of what we can do naturally and have to sweat and bleed on an individual basis to overcome them.

One suggestion would be to start a traing log - record your throws & hopefully some video. Show your intent to grow and help others & I'm sure you'll get all the feedback you could ask for.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 17/20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/03/10 at 5:27am

My singles at 220in the Power Snatch about 5-7 days out were a forecast for the WOB back about 10 years ago. I was a regular at 16'6"-17' and would often attempt 17'6".  Two weeks out I would be in the 350 range for a single in the power clean. So timing and speed of the certain lift can be a predictor for vertical force out-put for HG events-sheaf and caber as well. But....... you need to perform under stress....

There is also the mental aspect-no heighting etc at the lower heights. You have to train at the lower heights as well. Steve Pucinella was great at just going over the bar and conserving, your thinking he's never gonna go 17' (often did), my phisophy was still is to blow everyone over as I just need to find a grove early. I know I have 10-12 max efforts in me before I breakdown. So prepare in training. You should also look at your traing throws as a predictor......

These days, 10 years later my training throws about a week out with a 40 lb (I throw mostly masters) over 17'-17'6 are a good predictor. If I can make the hts with a very slow and shallow draw of the weight between the legs, Im ready for all the lower hts 16-18'. I'll take 1-3 at max effort and know If I'm in 19-20' range and just need to excute day of.

 

I MAY BE BIG , BUT I'M FAST
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pingleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/05/10 at 2:40pm

Originally posted by verewulf verewulf wrote:

I guess what I am saying is if you can snatch x amount one handed you should be able to clear at a certain height with form and technical ability not being a factor?

A couple of points come to mind:

1) Any such correlation is going to be rather individual, as differences in height, arm length, leg length, etc. and how they affect a particular lift vs. the WOB are going to vary to some extent with each person, and possibly quite dramatically between people who are very tall vs. rather short.  This will be especially true for lifts like squats (which I know was not your example).  Taller, longer-limbed individuals are generally going to perform much better in events like the WOB at a given level of strength than someone who is much shorter.  Assuming reasonable lifting techinique, there will also likely be a higher correlation between lifts like the hang snatch, the dumbbell snatch, or the hang/power clean with a high catch than slower lifts, simply because the weights and ROM involved are somewhat closer.

2) Technique etc., both for the WOB and the lift in question, cannot be discounted, as this is going to have a significant effect on the result. 

I think the best you might be able to come up with is something along the lines of, "Most people of average size will need to power snatch xx in order to clear xx in the WOB, assuming acceptable technique in both the throw and the lift. Your mileage may vary."


We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.



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Duncan McCallum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/24/10 at 7:45pm

The Force is a binding, metaphysical and ubiquitous power in the fictional universe of the Star Wars galaxy.

Hope that helps!!!

The man in the arena.
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verewulf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verewulf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/26/10 at 2:29pm
So Duncan do you know any weight over bar jedi in need of a padawan?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/26/10 at 7:59pm

Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained! A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things...

Come to practice in Keller...for our ally is the Force.  And a powerful ally it is...

The man in the arena.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hopefullthrower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/28/10 at 7:41pm
body type and technique come into it too much, and
sometimes you are good at one thing and not another, my
snatch was always better than my clean relatively because i
could always get the timing of the drop just right on it
and not quite on the clean same with throws.
The unexamined life is not worth living.
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brandell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/01/10 at 4:12am
Hummm Can't throw the WOB well?  Seems someone is lacking midiclorians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pingleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/01/10 at 7:56am

Originally posted by brandell brandell wrote:

Hummm Can't throw the WOB well?  Seems someone is lacking midiclorians.

Well, something has to explain guys like this.  He looks like a high school swimmer, and yet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL28yM6a3DA&feature=relat ed

 


We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.



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Bert Sorin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Sorin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/02/10 at 3:24am
I think there has to be a certain strength level in order to throw certain numbers the FIRST FEW TIMES. Then, I personally believe you can achieve the same or similar levels with less and less high end strength. I believe repetition of that level of performance, honed timing, and just the general belief that you are supposed to throw a certain distance takes hold. I think high end strength / power are obviously needed to throw far, and most specifically to move to the next level, but to maintain, less is needed. IMO.

lastly, I would prefer training for speed (with some help from the Tendo if possible), than heavy any day (from a performance on throwing standpoint).
In Strength and Throws,
Bert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/03/10 at 10:27am

+ 1 bert.

I'm not as strong or heavy as I was 5 years ago , but things like the weight throws are just as good or better.

Somethings like hammer are not

51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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