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MWC 2014 W40-49 is now split

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K Rogers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: MWC 2014 W40-49 is now split
    Posted: 7/31/13 at 12:42pm
Hey

http://www.scottishmasters.org/index.html

"We are pleased to announce that it has been decided that a New World Championship will be contested in Inverness splitting the traditional Women 40-49 age group into W40-44 (who will throw the 28lb) and the W45-49 (who will throw the 21lb). Thereby preserving the Scottish Masters Records for women's throws with the 28lb (2 Stone) weight for distance and height events while also accommodating the recent athlete inquires for the women's weights.

Simply, we'll now start the use of the lighter weight at 45 years of age for the women. To do this we must now split the MWC2014 Early Registration List of W40-49 into 2 groups and we'll ask all the listed athletes to contact me at kevin.rogers@scottishmasters.org regarding the change in age groups and with questions about the weights designed for use.
"

-K



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bigirish01 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 12:52pm
So then Men 45 + will throw the 35# Now ?Wink  
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flame of Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:06pm
That sounds like a fair enough compromise given the arguments of the other thread. By creating a new class, you would have new records to keep anyway allowing the 21# change, while still preserving the integrity  28# 40+ records you were concerned about. Good move, and I give you the utmost respect for spearheading such a monstrously huge event.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flame of Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by bigirish01 bigirish01 wrote:

So then Men 45 + will throw the 35# Now ?Wink  
Jay, you're funny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:21pm
I personally think its a mistake to change the weight.... Thats my opinion.
I reflect on 63 year old Ken Beck, when givin the option to throw the 96 pound Portland stone, or the lighter one.... He took a vote of all the 60+ men... they all voted and threw the 96# ...same weight that the Pro's and all other Amateur Men threw!
 
You win the battle.... lower weight....
You lose the War.... Credibility.....  
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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K Rogers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:25pm
Jay-
 
Show a little faith .. we'll compromise at 45years .. and hopefully move on.

There's bigger fish to fry.
 
-K
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:25pm
I'll be 47 at the time of this event. Respectfully, may I opt to throw with the younger group and earn a shot at that record? 

juli peterson
You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:37pm
Juli-
 
Aaaaahhh, ... mmm ... aaahhh ... yes. Not sure why not.  
 
See .. this is how the whole can of worms felt.
 
-K 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:43pm
I feel for ya! I know this decision has made a lot of women happy and I'm happy for them and for you on getting this off your desk on onto bigger things.

I'm also happy that I can go ahead and throw the big dog around. Win/win.

I appreciate it, very much. Thank you. Look forward to hopefully meeting you at Jason's Throwing for The Cure event in a few weeks.

Thank you again!

jp
You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Queen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by bigirish01 bigirish01 wrote:

He took a vote of all the 60+ men... they all voted 

Key word there Jay, he took a vote of all of those involved.

Kudos to the SMAI for listening to the Lady Masters and making a compromise.  Clap
I consider it a step in the right direction!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by bigirish01 bigirish01 wrote:

I personally think its a mistake to change the weight.... Thats my opinion.
I reflect on 63 year old Ken Beck, when givin the option to throw the 96 pound Portland stone, or the lighter one.... He took a vote of all the 60+ men... they all voted and threw the 96# ...same weight that the Pro's and all other Amateur Men threw!
 
You win the battle.... lower weight....
You lose the War.... Credibility.....  
Absolutely correct.
 
Besides, I still maintain that the proper way to run masters classes (for both men and women) is to use the same weights but simply drop events. I despise the 42#. If you don't want to throw the HWFD then just drop the event, don't change it. I still remember Bill Butler (may he rest in peace) trying to interest the masters men in a 19# heavy hammer. Thank God that idea never caught on. Just because we made one stupid mistake (the 42#) doesn't mean we should repeat the folly.
Cheers,

Carlos



"Live free or die"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Queen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:47pm
Juli - you have a shot at that record any time you throw the 28lb. in competition.  It does not have to be thrown at the MWC in order to count as a Masters Record.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by The Queen The Queen wrote:

Juli - you have a shot at that record any time you throw the 28lb. in competition.  It does not have to be thrown at the MWC in order to count as a Masters Record.

Good to know! Thank youSmile

jp
You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by The Queen The Queen wrote:


Originally posted by bigirish01 bigirish01 wrote:

<div ="_1x1"="">
<div ="userwrapper"="">
<div ="_wk"=""><span style="line-height: 1.4;">He took a vote of all the 60+ men... they all voted </span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span><div ="_wk"=""><span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span><div ="_wk"=""><span style="line-height: 1.4;">Key word there Jay, he took a vote of all of those involved.</span><div ="_wk"=""><span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span><div ="_wk"="">[COLOR="#000099"]<span style="line-height: 1.4;"]Kudos to the SMAI for listening to the Lady Masters and making a </span]compromise.  Clap[/COLOR]<div ="_wk"="">I consider it a step in the right direction!


My point is that when it came down to it... They wanted to be respected amongst their athlete peers....
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:40pm
Kevin is far too nice, and I told him that. 

I would have never made this change and told everyone to FFFFF off. 

Good thing I'm not in charge, I guess. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn Baker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:51pm
"somewhat" heavy athletics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:59pm

Craig-

It may turn out that I'm the wrong man for the job .. but its too late for me to turn back now.

I've got to finish this one .. but I will start looking for a replacement in earnest now.
 
I've retired from better paying gigs.
 
-K
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 3:16pm
Better you than I my friend, believe that. 

I'm sure the women throwing the 1.5 stone weight (sigh) will shower you with love a result.

So you've got that going for you...




Which is nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerws76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 4:28pm
Kevin,

Great leaders will ALWAYS make decisions that not everyone will agree with.  No one could do what you have done in the last several years without great leadership abilities.  You will have many more of these decisions to make.  When you look at the success of the MWC, NO ONE can doubt your ability.  Thank you for your service and march on. Look at the growth of these games and be very proud of your work!
Roger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candysprinkles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by bigirish01 bigirish01 wrote:

<DIV ="_1x1">
<DIV ="userWrapper">
<DIV ="_wk"><SPAN ="user" -ft='"tn":"K"'>I personally think its a mistake to change the weight.... Thats my opinion. </SPAN>
<DIV ="_wk"><SPAN ="user" -ft='"tn":"K"'>I reflect on 63 year old Ken Beck, when givin the option to throw the 96 pound Portland stone, or the lighter one.... He took a vote of all the 60+ men... they all voted and threw the 96# ...same weight that the Pro's and all other Amateur Men threw!</SPAN>
<DIV ="_wk"><SPAN ="user" -ft='"tn":"K"'></SPAN> 
<DIV ="_wk"><SPAN ="user" -ft='"tn":"K"'>You win the battle.... lower weight....</SPAN>
<DIV ="_wk"><SPAN ="user" -ft='"tn":"K"'>You lose the War.... Credibility.....   </SPAN>


Yep the men all VOTED to throw the heavier Portland stone. The majority won. The Master women informally voted last year, with the majority wanting to go with the change to 21# (per Karyn's poll - thanks Karyn!)

Jay, as a 49 year old Master (for 2013), you'd like to go back to throwing the 56 then? Take a vote of your class - I'd be interested in what the results would be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candysprinkles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by K Rogers K Rogers wrote:

Hey

http://www.scottishmasters.org/index.html

<span ="null">"We are pleased to announce that
                                   it has been decided that a New World Championship
                                   will be contested in Inverness splitting the
                                   traditional Women 40-49 age group into W40-44 (who
                                   will throw the 28lb) and the W45-49 (who will throw
                                   the 21lb). Thereby preserving the Scottish Masters
                                   Records for women's throws with the 28lb (2 Stone)
                                   weight for distance and height events while also
                                   accommodating the recent athlete inquires for the
                                   women's weights.

                                   

                                   Simply, we'll now start the use of the lighter
                                   weight at 45 years of age for the women. To do this
                                   we must now split the MWC2014 Early Registration
                                   List of W40-49 into 2 groups and we'll ask all the
                                   listed athletes to contact me at
                                   
                                   kevin.rogers@scottishmasters.org
regarding the
                                   change in age groups and with questions about the
                                   weights designed for use.</span>"

-K







Kevin, thank for and the SMAI and MWC committees for considering and making this change. I, and many other Master Women competitors appreciate it. See you at MWC 2014!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:04pm
QUOTE CANDY SPRINKLES AKA Stephanie
 
"Yep the men all VOTED to throw the heavier Portland stone. The majority won. The Master women informally voted last year, with the majority wanting to go with the change to 21# (per Karyn's poll - thanks Karyn!)

Jay, as a 49 year old Master (for 2013), you'd like to go back to throwing the 56 then? Take a vote of your class - I'd be interested in what the results would be. "
 
 
yes they voted to use the proper stone when given a choice because they wanted to throw the same weight as their peers....  Thats the point.... if they had followed the Lead of the women... they would have voted to use a smaller stone because its easier.
 
I'm a poor example for you to use Steph... I have had the option of throwing Master (42)8 years ago and threw as a B and A until last year. I threw 56 last Saturday at Enumclaw. Im not gonna lobby to throw lower a weight beacuse I dont wanna throw it....  Its called the Heavy Events for a reason.
Whats next? Smaller lighter cabers so everyone can turn them? When I competed in Strongman you lifted what they had and Highland games should be no differant.
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candysprinkles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:11pm
Jay, my question was how your entire Master Men 40-49 class would vote if given the option of throwing the 56 v 42. I know you personally throw the 56 still. And there is no need to AKA me - my full name is in my profile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candysprinkles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:17pm
So if the standard in the Highland Games is "lift what they have", why the change to 42 for Master Men 40+? Why a 14# weight for women as LWD at all? Why a 12# LH for women? Changes were made along the way at some time. We are at the time for another change now. If an athlete prefers to throw the "traditional" weights even though Masters age they can throw in an Open (or A or B) class like Jay and other Masters age athletes have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by candysprinkles candysprinkles wrote:

Jay, my question was how your entire Master Men 40-49 class would vote if given the option of throwing the 56 v 42. I know you personally throw the 56 still. And there is no need to AKA me - my full name is in my profile.


No your question was..."Jay, as a 49 year old Master (for 2013), you'd like to go back to throwing the 56 then?" My answer is I throw what's placed in front of me... and if I went to Scotland and they said The weight will be 56 I will throw the 56 without question or argument.

As for taking a poll of my fellow competitors... Im not sure what they would say. But I do know this... I would never assume that everyone I throw with would opt to throw the lesser weight.
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:53pm
Our sport is a strength sport... so you adapt to the sport, you shouldn't expect the sport to make concessions for your weakness
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote candysprinkles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by bigirish01 bigirish01 wrote:

Our sport is a strength sport... so you adapt to the sport, you shouldn't expect the sport to make concessions for your weakness


My point is, at some time there were concessions made in the HG. Masters Men throwing the 42 instead of 56. Women using 14 for their LWD (1/2 stone weight.) Women using a 12# hammer for LH. Women throwing at all! LW Mens classes. And even age classes (Masters.) At one time, all of these changes were concessions. Concessions that were presumably made for, as you put it, some athletes' "weakness." Many strength sports have made changes to their rules and traditions over the years.

This change is no different from any other change to HG "traditions" that were made in the past, except that it is happening now. Did we cross some "no more changes can be made ever" bar in 2012 that I was not aware of? Maybe the Mayan calendar ending signified that time should stand still.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 17/20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:48pm
There was a move at Captial District, Altamont, NY some years ago to go with the 35 hwfd for the older masters. Not sure think it was denied. Anyone recall? So be advised this ain't over yet. Just a heads up Kevin, take the phone off the. Gonna be hard to say no to the 35 at this point after this decision.
I MAY BE BIG , BUT I'M FAST
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:52pm
Keep posting...... you're making my argument stronger

14# is 1 stone...not 1/2   
yes there are classes.... why they are here I don't know. But there is only 1 class asking for a lower weight.
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Ingram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:56pm
I dunno. When I compete (less and less often) I just throw what they put in front of me. If it's the 42, great it's a fun weight to throw. it's not like it's the 14lb weight for height.
if it's the 56 great, it's always been my favorite event along with the caber.

If I sign up for a Games I throw what they've got. 16-90+lb stones, 80-160lb cabers... it's a pretty mixed bag. I like that.

But that's just me. As an AD, in the future when I'm confronted with issues like this, I believe my motto will be WWMVD and I will consult Youtube for advice.
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