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Building a Throwing Training Template

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Jim Glover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Glover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Building a Throwing Training Template
    Posted: 1/22/13 at 11:36pm

I have the Training Lab and I dig Matt's lay out but I think as a rank newb I need a bit more.

So please share your basic outline, drills, and the why's and whatfor's for using said outline/drills.

I tend to function much better with structure and I don't mind doing drills but I have to understand why I'm doing it and what I'm looking to get out of it.

Thanks in advance.

"A single one of us can defeat your whole army. If you do not believe it, you may try, only please order your army to stop shooting with firearms." - Mameluke Chieftain Kurtbay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Glover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/22/13 at 11:38pm
Medball drills are welcome as well since I have access to a variety of medballs at the gym.
"A single one of us can defeat your whole army. If you do not believe it, you may try, only please order your army to stop shooting with firearms." - Mameluke Chieftain Kurtbay
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Jim Glover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Glover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/25/13 at 11:34pm

Why do you hate America?


I bet if I asked this at the Crossfit boards I'd get some responses.

"A single one of us can defeat your whole army. If you do not believe it, you may try, only please order your army to stop shooting with firearms." - Mameluke Chieftain Kurtbay
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Deakion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Deakion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/25/13 at 11:45pm
I have a drill for you.

 It involves lines and drills.



I have another, it involves drill's with lines.







Jonathan Irvin

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Jim Glover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Glover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/25/13 at 11:48pm

LOL 

I actually plan on doing that one.  

We need to make a trip up to see you.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 2:47pm

You could probably read through my log and find all the drills you're looking for. I've got very detailed notes and videos describing practices, what I'm working on for a particular part of the throw, etc. Just an idea. If you've got particular questions about different aspects of a certain throw, shoot me a PM. I have absolutely no background in throwing, so I've had to do a lot of trial and error to find what works so while I'm not an expert, I've got a pretty good grasp as to what needs to be done.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s_hutch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 10:43pm
You might be able to look at some basic technique track and field books or videos to get ideas for drills, and an outline on how to plan a practice for drills.  Shot put drills have the biggest carryover of course, but you might find some stuff you can take from discus and/or olympic hammer and apply it.  I'm not saying do all of the exact same drills for discus or hammer, but you might be able to pull ideas from there, like doing drills that involve working on getting the hips up, finishing with hands up high for the hammer, wind progression stuff for hammer, etc.  You might need to figure out how to change these to fit your needs.

I think Matt Vincent said he was working on a book that involved breaking down each throw and drills for different phases of the throws.  I'm not sure if or when he will release that, but that sounds like something that would help fill your request.
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Jim Glover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Glover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/13 at 12:37am
Thanks.  I'm sure I'll pick up Matt's book when it comes out.
"A single one of us can defeat your whole army. If you do not believe it, you may try, only please order your army to stop shooting with firearms." - Mameluke Chieftain Kurtbay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lugeour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/27/13 at 4:35am
I'm doing it and what I'm looking to get out of it.
I feel like every army costumes for women a couple girls try to outwhore the costume they had the year before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote grasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/27/13 at 6:01am
For each throw set up a routine of drills that you do before your go "balls deep"
Stone:
- Toe Boards
- Braemars
- Step throughs
- No reverses

Weights:
- Line Drills
- Cast and Drops
- Stands
- One Turns (Im only doing these right now till I get to a goal distance)
- Put together into a throw

Hammers:
- winds
- one turns
- two turns
- three turns

Get a plan, a routine down, and get after it!  Set cones out at a range of what is "acceptable" for where you are in your throwing.  Adjust distances as needed.
"Breathe deeply. Refuse to be weak. Refuse to be sick. Refuse to die. Think strong and you will be." -The Mighty Atom (Yoselle Greenstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joel Sim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/09/13 at 1:51pm
more food for thought;

do you lift 3-4 days a week attempting 20-30 single rep max attempts? Why would you plan throws training to include 20-30, or significantly more, reps trying for a PR every throw?

Why wouldn't you approach throws practice with similar, possibly progressive, percentage based planning as your strength training?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D. Haakenson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/09/13 at 2:12pm
Throwing and Lifting are different. That is why I would train lifting and throwing differently.
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Joel Sim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joel Sim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/09/13 at 4:31pm
Dan,

IMO, yes & no. It all depends on your view point. Different movements? Definitely. Different force production and/or power output? Not entirely.

As has been previously & repetitively stated, no form of weight lifting (specifically the movement) translates directly to a throw - HOWEVER - it has also been proven that training almost any given movement (some movements are believed to be more beneficial than others) with a focus on power output and/or force production will have carryover to your throws.
Very few things in this sport are as black & white as we would like them to be. I used to ask ALOT of either/or questions when I started, now I have a better understanding.

I'm curious about how you view throwing & lifting to be different, will you explain further please?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wrighj03 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/13 at 8:35pm
if your right handed throw with your left too and also vertical jumps for leg speed the power for any event comes from the ground and transfers through the kinetic chain. Hams glutes obliques
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D. Haakenson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/26/13 at 4:04am
Originally posted by Joel Sim Joel Sim wrote:

more food for thought;

do you lift 3-4 days a week attempting 20-30 single rep max attempts? Why would you plan throws training to include 20-30, or significantly more, reps trying for a PR every throw?

Why wouldn't you approach throws practice with similar, possibly progressive, percentage based planning as your strength training?

Sorry I'm so late to respond. I wouldn't approach the competitive events the same way that I do a general preparation exercise like almost all weight lifting would be considered because I am trying to throw the farthest that I can, whereas I am not trying to lift the most weight that I can. If I was a competitive lifter, I would, as you suggest above, lift 3-4 days a week (probably more) and attempt 20-30 single rep max attempts (probably more during particular phases)

Additionally, the most complicated weight lifting exercise is considerably more simple than any throwing event. Just as a lifter cannot know what it feels like to get underneath a 600 lb back squat by doing 8 reps at 400 lbs, even more so a thrower cannot know what it feels like to move in such a way to throw an 80 foot LWFD by throwing a dozen 60 foot throws. 

I know that it is a popular idea especially on this forum to use "range throwing" and some people seem to have some success with it. I personally do not think that it is the best way to become a great thrower and I wouldn't suggest it to athletes that I coach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Daniel McKim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/26/13 at 9:20am

Good discussion here, for sure.  For what it's worth, I, too, am not one for "range throwing."  I can understand the purpose, but it seems that, for me, it's too different than my normal technique.  I have to alter things (change speeds, apply less force, etc.), so I struggle with it. (Although, the best our sport has seen, Ryan Vierra, used to train it, so I can't rightly discredit it).  

 

I structure my throws sessions like below, as I've found this to work for me.  That's key -- find what works for you. This is an "ideal" week, but with a full-time job and five kids under the age of seven at home, ideal is a many times tough.

 

  **DISCLAIMER** I always know how far I’m throwing.  I put marks out to hit and surpass every practice.  What you don't see here is the 18 months+ of throwing almost every day of the week that I did when I first started (got injured, too) and the years of other throwing.  I’ve been doing this almost 10 years, now, and looking back, this is how I would structure it for Daniel McKim 2005 and thereafter:

 

Day One - Stone and Caber

 

Stone

One-two drills - no wrist wrap, get the wrist, hips, back, elbow, shoulder warm. This helps me line up my throws (early in the year, I'll just walk back and forth across the field throwing these ... lots of times)

Stand Throws (braemar) - no reverse 

Stand Throws (braemar) - reverse 

South African - no reverse (stick the finish, keep turning and driving the hip)

South African - full throws (I always put a mark out there to hit. Let's say, it's 54 feet with my 15.5 lb. stone.  I'll take my throws, work on the things I always have to work on, then take six final throws.  I'll either set it up like a comp where I have to hit it to "win," then take three extras, or I'll put it out there that I have to have four of the final six make it there and further.

 

Caber
Lay the caber down and do some mock carry and pulls (just like I do at a games).

Throw caber … run fast, pull hard.  Do it again … and again … and again … you get the idea.

 

Day Two – Heavy weight, light hammer, Sheaf

 

HWFD

One turns – I wish I had done these years ago, as they’ve really helped me line things up. Do lots until I can feel the sprint and finish (and my thumb is warmed up and stretched out). *If you’re starting out the sooner you start hook-gripping, the better.

Two turns – Just like full stone throws, I’ll finish up with a mark to hit on my final six or so.  Compete with yourself. *Also, the sooner you move to two turns the better off you’ll be.  Use one-turns as a drill not a competitive throw.

 

Light hammer – blades, if possible, from day one

Winds – lots of them. Put your feet in the ground, wind it up to three, then slam it into the ground just to your right.  A lot of your hammer work should be done here.  I’m also a believer in putting a massive hole in the round just off your right foot – you don’t let off and pull your blades out of the ground in a throw, so don’t get the in practice of it during your winds, but this is just my opinion.

Full throws – see above for final marks and hit. Again, get or make blades.  You are ready for blades from day one.  Hammer with blades and without are two completely different throws, so get in blades from the get-go.

 

Sheaf

Nothing earth-shattering here – slow, cautious pulls to get warmed up.  Then, I draw a line in the grass with my foot, then measure out my steps like I’m throwing over a bar at a comp.  If possible, depending on where I’m throwing, I’ll sometimes throw at a branch, as well, but I really like stepping out from the line and throwing.  You can tell by where it lands if you had the right pull or not, if it was in or out, etc.

 

Day Three – Light weight, heavy hammer, WOB

 

LWFD

Same as HWFD

 

Heavy Hammer

I do the same here as I do for the light hammer, but I’ll warm up with the light hammer first, as it helps remind me of the speed and acceleration I want for the heavy.  I throw the light and heavy differently (long story – ask me why at a comp sometime for the long, nerdy explanation and philosophy).

 

WOB

Just like the sheaf, I mark the ground and measure my steps out.  I also have a homemade WOB upright, too. 

 

I believe I over-threw in high school, college and the first six years of HG.  I like this structure, but again, what you don’t see here is the foundation and endurance built through 10 years of track and field and six years of throwing HG too much.  Once I switched to this type of routine, my throws improved.  Notice I split up my weights and hammers.  I first changed this because they were my weakest events for too many years, so by splitting them I get more work on the events I needed.  Weights are still very tough for me, but I’m working on it, and this structure helps.  Focus on your weak events and optimize your time to improve on them.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swollenknuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/13 at 12:25am
Awesome post Dan, thanks for writing that out for us!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel McKim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/13 at 9:32am
Originally posted by swollenknuck swollenknuck wrote:

Awesome post Dan, thanks for writing that out for us!

No problem, Ray!  It turned out a bit too long, but hopefully it made sense somewhere!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swollenknuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/13 at 12:07am
Dan, I would not say it was too long and I think it made perfect sense.  Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J Alabama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/13 at 12:21pm
Yeah great. Thanks for posting that. I like drills.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kilted Celt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/28/15 at 2:42pm
Hi Dan, hope you are well. Just wondering how many throws would you recommend on each drill before doing full throws?
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