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Core training?

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stoneman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 1/15/06 at 6:35am
What do most of you do for core training and how often ?
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Wayne Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/15/06 at 7:25am
Off-season, I mostly pick up heavy things and put them down again.  Squats, DL, bench, and OH pressing all help the midsection in stabilization pretty well.

I believe you need a twisting exercise to develop strength for the torso twisting that occurs in weight for distance and hammers.  Consequently, I do Russian twists, one heavy set twice a week.  These are illustrated here:

http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewarticle&arti cleID=56

-Wayne
"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/15/06 at 8:38am

Try Hammer winds
Just take the 22lbs hammer and do winds like your going to throw it but stay about 60% speed with good form instead of tossing the hammer after 3 winds keep going to 6 or 8 just dump the hammer into the ground when your done it really works the trunk.

I also recommend doing reverse hypers; it works the lower back while reducing the pressure and compaction of the spine. I always do them after heavy squats.

When I do push presses I leave the bar up in the air for as long as I can it really works the MId.

I have been doing a lot of 'static'  exercises for the trunk as well its kind of Pilates stuff but it really works I have greatly reduced back pain because of my focus on the core.

http://cghighlander.blogspot.com/
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Wayne Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/15/06 at 10:50am
Originally posted by G-man G-man wrote:

Its kind of Pilates stuff but it really works.

Are your muscles longer and leaner now?



-Wayne

"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/15/06 at 11:37am
Ya Wayne its a sight to be seen me (6'3 290) and the 300 fat kid doing yoga/pilates while we watch Dog the Bounty Hunter all I need now is a talk fish on the wall and I can make my own White trash exercise show!! 
http://cghighlander.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/15/06 at 1:20pm

  G-man said: "When I do push presses I leave the bar up in the air for as long as I can it really works the MId." 

I know Thom VanVleck (JWC III) does something similiar.  He takes a rather heavy bar presses it over head and does 360 degree spins. Says it really works the core. 

I like Russian twists on the decline bench, swiss ball or roman chair.  Also do mock hammer winds on the roman chair or swiss ball.  Theres a ton of stuff, just think of the throws and copy somewhat in the weightroom.  Keep the reps low, remember you're trying to strengthen the core not tone and shape it. 

 

 

 

Throw!! There is no finish line!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JWC III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 4:32am

Yes, I do the "Overhead 360's".  Came across them by accident and it helps me accomplish two things.  One, I have trouble with lock outs and the overhead support of the weight helps work the supportive muscles.  Second, by walking 360 degrees around one way, then stopping the weight, changing directions the other way and stopping the momentum again, you really work the core.  I used around 250lbs max, bumper plates in case I lose it!!!! 

The story behind this exercise goes liked this:  My partner, Brian Kerby, was doing an exhibition with a 300lb log for about 400 people who weren't savvy to strongman.  He did the log easy and once he got it overhead he did a 360 degree turn with it and stopped.  After he put it down, I said, "where did that come from"?  Brian said he noticed the crowd wasn't that impressed with his lifting the log, so he threw in a little something extra on a whim.  A couple of days later, he complained that his obliques were extremely sore and attributed it to the 360s.  Something different, but be careful if you use heavy weights as they might get dropped....so use bumpers. 

Thom Van Vleck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skullsplitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 6:26am
An old Russian trick that I did as a O-lifter that is similar is to push press a barbell and walk around the gym with it.  Now that I train in my basement and the space is more confined I do that with dumbells and as usual this is even harder.  The reason most people are not good at overhead presses/jerks, etc., is that their obliques are weak.  Also, standard Olympic presses...done correctly...also strengthen the rectus muscles, particularly at the attachments.  Last winter, I worked the core with a series of medicine ball exercises and continued my usual deadlifting ways, and my deadlift went up 50 lbs...what does that say?  Not to mention I set pr's in every games event and improved in the caber this past year. 
"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 1:36pm
Heh, yeah Bill, I do those dumbbell walkabouts at my gym. Its cool,
because I need to contort my body around all the obstacles and the drop
ceiling on one side. Haven't dared do more than 65lb since I am afraid I
might drop one.

This winter, I have been working with a sandbag... in particular the
exercise that seems to work nice i the Turkish Getup. Where you start
laying on your butt on the floor, pick the bag up to your shoulder (or if
your really manly and have ungodly grip strength, straightarm it up into
the air), and then work your way up to a stand, and then back down
again.

I do about 3 or 4 of these with 125lb bag, and want to go throw up.

This exercise works almost every muscle in your body, grip, arms, legs,
and core, plus stabilizers. Though I feel much more core workout overall
doing even the standard lifts with the bag (cleans, presses, even squats).

Real Men Wear Purple

Tinky Winky Throw Far!

Central Vermont Strength Association
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/17/06 at 10:16am

Wayne,

Thanks for putting that website up. During the winter I usually change my routine then about a month before the games start, I go back to doing cleans, front squats,and pretty much do all the stuff you say that helps. I will start doing some of those Russian twist movements because I haven't improved much on my weights for distance. Do you think I should start sooner than that to get in groove of things?

Thanks!

Jen

Let the games begin!!!
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Wayne Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/17/06 at 1:31pm
That Depends <tm>.

Usually, a 1-2 month preseason period working on explosiveness is appropriate, but the HG season is pretty long, so the 1-month period would be reasonable.

There's also the Dr. Bill theory to be taken into account:  once you're throwing, your throwing can comprise a lot of your explosiveness training, and you might want to return to training for strength in-season.

-Wayne
"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skullsplitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/18/06 at 5:58pm
Yes Wayne, I will take credit for that one, hopefully to offset alot of other stuff that isn't that great.  Think about the throws guys get early in the year.  In general, some excellent results are slated early.  Didn't Ryan and Eric throw the 56 almost 50 feet...in April.  All the off season strength training as well as core work, etc.  Ask yourself, do you throw well early in the year?  I do.  Then by July I'm sucking fumes, I get pissed, I do more strength training and then in August the throws take off.  I reset all my pr's in May and August/September last year (excluding the NH Games!).  Just ask yourself when do you throw your best?  Then the age old argument about the pure throwers vs the big, strong guys... really different in training for results.
"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/19/06 at 4:41am
Ive got to go with Bill on this one. Early in the season (coming off a great
winter training season) I threw great, had energy, and then everything
went downhill as soon as I stopped lifting. I think some sort of in season
strength program must be in place in order to maintain that level of
intensity during the season.
"Breathe deeply. Refuse to be weak. Refuse to be sick. Refuse to die. Think strong and you will be." -The Mighty Atom (Yoselle Greenstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sqeezemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/20/06 at 8:38am

If you really want to punish your obliques, try the diesel sidebend, illustrated here

http://www.dieselcrew.com/videos/petesidebends.wmv

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dave brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/20/06 at 12:07pm

Part of core training is the individual aspect of identifying and improving the weak link(s), and in some cases core training depends on an individuals flexibility and balance. 

My personal recommendation is don't get focused on how much weight you can carry - form is crucial to staying upright for the next series of decades, and how you train now will affect that.  The key is recover from a workout - not induce so much pain that it takes a week to get back in the gym.

Here's some suggestions: Identify where your weak link is - do deadlifts with perfect form at light weights and add weight until you're sore.... where are you sore?  If you added a belt would you lift 50 lb or 300 lb more?  Do you use wraps? (Are they for lifting reasons or injury prevention reasons).  I'd say for core training, if you're using aids for lifting reasons, you're not fully training your core - encourage your weaker muscles to catch up and you'll see big gains.

For initial core improvement - it's usually the back and smaller muscles that need improvement.  Try these: Snatch Squats or Overhead Squats; Back/Front Squats; Russian Twists; Good Mornings (keep the form good here and you'll see results); hyperextensions both in up/down form and with rotational up/down; Farmer's Walk or just about anything you can carry for a short walk or run (bag of cement, beans, couple of tires, tree rounds - you get the picture).  One of my favorite core things to do is grab a plate weight (maybe 25 or more) and standing upright and legs shoulder width, rotate side to side for the most stretch - even if you turn your ankles at the ends of the rotation.  Try to add to this movement by rotating a little quicker and actually 'sitting back' when the weight crosses in front of you.  This works your back, abs, obliques, hips, and many small muscles.  A variation to this that will work balance is to start with the plate at one ankle (almost looking behind yourself)... then raise it in an arc over your body to the other ankle and repeat.  On the good mornings and hypers.. I'd use these at least for the end of a workout - and also as a warmup if you're up for it.

Make water your best friend and drinks lots of it.  Try and push a little more cardio effort into the lifting - supersets of push press/power clean/back squat seem to work most the body and will get the heart pumping.  Jump rope, running, rowing, and box jumps - done frequently help the core and the supportive muscle groups as well.

I'd suggest if you know of 'core' problems  - work on those or indicate a plateau in training.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/16/06 at 10:41am
Thanks Dave I stopped using lifting aids and I have seen improvement.
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