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SAAA Rules & Women Hammers |
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Soul Eater 
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Joined: 7/31/08 Location: Papua New Guinea Status: Offline Points: 950 |
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 Posted: 4/09/13 at 2:30am |
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I find it hard to take someone serious who hasn't thrown for over a year and wants to make changes. Really I do.
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jlmreddog
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 8:07am |
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Since you like to look at numbers,
# of competitors in 2012; Amateur Men= 988 Master Men= 474 Lightweights= 122 Women = 239 Quit looking for the forest and enjoy the trees.
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John McClure
Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm. Abraham Lincoln |
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Borges
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The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 8:48am |
Kel, Teresa is entitled to voice her opinion, as is everyone else in this discussion. Taking a cheap shot at her to try and silence her is completely uncalled for (as was that shot at Mark trying to invalidate his opinion because of his gender). If you have an opinion, voice it and state your reasoning. If you just want to quash the discussion with cheap shots then maybe you should just ignore this thread.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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bigirish01
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 8:59am |
Like starting a Mens Lightweight class.... oops Did I say that?
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Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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phatmiked
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 9:07am |
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I wonder if we will see a continued increase in the distances and heights thrown by female competitors in the Highland Games as their numbers grow, and more competitions provide women's classes?
Kinda worked out that way for men over the years. Just another consideration. |
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Krazy40
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Stupid Track Guy Joined: 9/12/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 949 |
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 9:15am |
Is the wire shorter or is the ball smaller making the implement shorter?
I did a quick search(sorry, I'm not as good as C Smith at google) and nothing mentioned the length of the wire, just the full length. I don't ever remember judges measure the wire length, nor our coaches haveing two different lengths of wire on hand. But I could be wrong.
IMO, the women's hammer is shorter for that reason: the ball is smaller. Makes it easier, and more economical to have men and women use the same wire.
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Jeremy Gillingham
"Go Big or Go Home" Sponsors: http://www.stoutbarbell.com/Home_Page.html http://www.backinact.com/newpatients.htm |
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Borges
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 9:23am |
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Good point Jeremy. The overall length is shorter is correct. Not sure if that is solely due to the smaller ball although I don't think so since the size of the ball varies a little depending on the specific alloy used to make the implement.
And a good point by Mike as well. The men's records really moved as participation went up. I expect the same thing with the women.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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Krazy40
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 9:34am |
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The mixed gender class with "equel" weigths would be interesting. Could you imagine the amount of trash talking Matt V would do to A Train to get in her head? Also, how much more motivated would the guys be to not "get beat by a girl"
Craig makes a good point though...is a woman throwing farther then you with half the weight make you feel like less of a thrower?
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Jeremy Gillingham
"Go Big or Go Home" Sponsors: http://www.stoutbarbell.com/Home_Page.html http://www.backinact.com/newpatients.htm |
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Sammy68123
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 10:06am |
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Teresa Merrick
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Soul Eater
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 10:06am |
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Carlos it was a stupid idea you came up with 12 years ago and it still is, the only reason your being a cheerleader is because it was your idea.
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Borges
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The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 12:00pm |
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Kel,
Not sure where I was being a cheerleader so please point out to me exactly where in this thread I suggested or even supported changing the weight of the women's hammer.
By the way, your carefully reasoned and detailed arguments are what make you such a treasure to the highland games.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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C. Smith
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 12:12pm |
The same that I would feel if a female was throwing something lighter the same distance or farther. It doesn't matter because it's not the same thing. Do you really think the female wins in that case when she essentially played a course that was 400 yards shorter? That's why I have so much respect for the girls who have throw/have been been willing to throw the men's weights to compete. It's a level playing field for all and they just wanted to be out there competing. It wasn't about winning or making it fair. This certainly isn't a knock against the women, but it is what it is. My wife has been quite successful in strength sports, but she would never think that she beat a guy at something if she was given easier conditions. I find it hard to believe there are female athletes that would think otherwise, but maybe there are. |
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Sammy68123
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 12:58pm |
I agree when conditions and implements are the same.
But it has been fun to watch sheaf events where the women have thrown alongside a men's class in the flight on the field and to have the super women (NOT including me, for sure) still be in the competition after all the men of the flight are out.
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Teresa Merrick
Bellevue, NE |
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Alan H
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 1:40pm |
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Why doesn't someone ask, oh, about 100 female throwers what THEY want?
And no, I'm not volunteering. |
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The Queen
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 2:08pm |
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Alan, McSanta did a survey a few years back. You can do a search to find the thread where he posted the results. Or perhaps he will repost them. As I recall the results favored leaving the weights as they are.
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 2:10pm |
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...or just throw what's been given to you, what's been given to those before you. Otherwise you discredit those who paved the way for you have this opportunity.
My 2 cents. |
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Sport Kilt
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Alan H
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 4:58pm |
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Queen, I remember reading Adriane responding to this issue with a "negative"....as in, don't change the weights. Now Heather MacD. has echoed that response. I seem to recall seeing the survey you mentioned.
I'm not sure why the issue keeps coming up. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- By the way, I propose that women under 140 pounds not be allowed to spin in the weight over bar event.  |
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bigirish01
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 6:14pm |
I quite enjoy Kel and his presence at the Highland Games. He doesnt hide behind a keyboard. You never have to wonder what he's thinking.
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Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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McSanta
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Posted: 4/09/13 at 10:19pm |
D'oh <in my best Homer voice>
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Mark McVey
"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin |
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Silverback
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Posted: 4/10/13 at 8:39am |
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Kel may be the nicest person in our sport. Not banging on you Carlos, but just saying. 1 set of impliments for all is equality.
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Mule
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McSanta
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Posted: 4/10/13 at 8:10pm |
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As for the hammer survey, I can put up a link but rather not --- The survey was not flawless and would be unfair to those who support the traditional hammer weights as it actually showed a higher % wanted them lowered.
Writing survey questions to solicit unbiased results is difficult. I think I could have done a better job, never the less I did try to be unbiased. Also, if an unbiased survey could be done today, the results would be different. Both my clarification of the nature of women hammers (this thread) and the concerted lobbying and education effort by those who support the traditional hammers may sway results to both sides (or not). If survey results did change, what would that prove? It still boils down to two competing traditions - (a) the traditional of women in the games and the use of the current hammer weights and all of its baggage VS (b) The tradition embedded in Heavy Athletics of contrasts between heavy and light implements implies that the weights should change, and all of its baggage. Edited by McSanta - 4/10/13 at 9:32pm |
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Mark McVey
"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin |
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Soul Eater
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Posted: 4/10/13 at 10:27pm |
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This is why I'm a highland games treasure, and why my reasoning is screwed up and why I think this idea is not wise now so, more that ever. In the last couple years the highland games have collected a few more countries like Germany, Holland, Iceland I assume their are women throwers in NZ, AUS, Canada and Scotland as well with masters womens. You might change the weights in the US however you need to get these other countries on board to have any kind of major championships because it could become a disadvantage due to different timing that is required to throw different weights. This is why the sheaf is not contested in a world championship because many places don't throw it and it would be considered a spoiler.
The implements have been around a long time now, I would guess 20+ years, I would say that a tradition has been established. I would guess that many of the top women would not be for the change because they want the records. I can see how a newer less skilled athlete might think the idea of throwing a smaller implement would be beneficial but also not as challenging. Turning this sport into track and field makes it more like track and field and that is less like highland games. If you want complete standardization then throw 4 events in track and field. Turning this sport into the special olympics where everyone is a winner is not the direction this sport should go and we shouldn't knuckle under everytime someone can't cut it, and rise to the challange. I think that you are looking at a small population who wants this change and it is never any of the top female throwers who are in a the Open class and Masters. You want to throw the hammer better wind wind wind use straight arms remember to breath through the event don't gasp for air or hold your breath because this will cause your muscles to shorten and do lots of ab work. Myles and Jay I love you.
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Steve Conway
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 9:13am |
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Damn...does this mean our bromance is an "open relationship"
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Soul Eater
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 10:20am |
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No, Steve "THEIR CAN ONLY BE ONE" Jay and hoss are already in one, I'm not sure who Myles is in a Bromance with, maybe that Baab guy.
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jsully
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 10:26am |
its a good thing you didn't lead off with this, or I would have missed the entire post.. lol
ab work? I call that hammer practice
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jlmreddog
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 10:31am |
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Cue the Barry White music...
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John McClure
Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm. Abraham Lincoln |
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Borges
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The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 11:28am |
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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Soul Eater
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 11:49am |
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I'm a Zep head through and through, John. Jake you see many programs on here about lifting, most people are doing similar things. I don't look at the training logs at all so I really have no idea what is posted their but in the general thread forum core exercises are eluded to, but thats it(Craig's gavel might come down hard on me and he might show me 10 references to ab work that I missed in the last month, I apoligise Craig). I really haven't met anyone who really lives for doing core, it's a means to an end. And we all realize that you get core through the Oly and powerlifts, but a old fashioned ab routine not much info. Yes winding is good core. I was very fortunate to get to Know Matt Sandford a little during his time here and he told me that he use to hammer wind 75 pounds with a handle and plates.
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jsully
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 12:01pm |
this is impressive.
I used to do "core" a lot.. now it's just whenever I have time. Between pulling, front squats, hammer practice, stones, etc my core gets pretty toasted. I'm just going to say that if I train core directly I'll be overtraining.
exaggerated? yep. but it's my story and I'm sticking to it. hahaha
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bigirish01
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Posted: 4/11/13 at 12:02pm |
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Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Soul Eater wrote: