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"Pushing" the weight around |
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TomLawrence 
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Joined: 1/11/13 Location: Blairsville, GA Status: Offline Points: 2696 |
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 Topic: "Pushing" the weight aroundPosted: 3/20/13 at 7:50pm |
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I am terrible at the search function (even though I try), so this may have been covered a bunch already.
After reading Throwing Lab (again), messaging with Mat$o, and watching tons of videos of other people throwing. I think "pushing" the weight around for LWFD and HWFD means not letting the weight get behind you, i.e. not dragging the weight. After the cast, keep the throwing arm stiff and straight out from the shoulder and turn it and the weight with your whole body as you spin toward the front of the trig. I tried it briefly indoors with a 20# kettlebell and it seemed to look and feel right. Is this close to correct? If not are the better words to wrap around the concept? Tom |
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Aim high. Stay hungry.
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Duncan McCallum
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Posted: 3/20/13 at 8:01pm |
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What you have described is having zero separation.
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The man in the arena.
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wsciscoe
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Joined: 12/21/12 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Posted: 3/20/13 at 8:36pm |
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C. Smith posted on here somewhere about waiting for the weight to get to 1:00-12:00 before switching feet. (I'll see if i can find it) that way when your feet land facing 3:00 (right) the weight is a little behind you and you are torqued for the pull.
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Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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wsciscoe
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Posted: 3/20/13 at 8:55pm |
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Found it!
http://www.nasgaweb.com/FORUM/lwfd-help_topic15049.html “being more patient and waiting on it is what you
want. I used to think about waiting until the weight was about 1 o'clock
- 12 o'clock before going. I printed this so I can read it when I throw. “Try to do your rhythm swings, then really drop your hips.
Like...crazy drop the hips. Let the weight swing back AND UP A LITTLE BIT...and
then pull it low and wide. BIG arc. |
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Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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TomLawrence
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Joined: 1/11/13 Location: Blairsville, GA Status: Offline Points: 2696 |
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Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:26pm |
Duncan -- I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean between upper and lower body? Can you 'splain? Or if there is too much, can you sum up? Glenn -- The thread you posted shows pictures and video of the upper body shape I'm talking about. I think if I understand Alan's post, it indicated that you're only applying force to the weight about half the time, i.e. cast, switch, pull, switch, pull, throw. Does that sound right? The problem I'm trying to solve as I defined it: For LWFD and HWFD, I am using way too much arm, and it's limiting and injuring me. My traps and neck are always very sore after a throwing session and the 56# is just overpowering me. Even the 28# seems to throw me half the time. I'm below 200 pounds body weight, but I'm convinced that fixing my technique will make up for a lot in low mass and strength. I need to throw more with my body and less with my arm, but I can't figure out how to do that. One bit of guidance I got was to think about pushing the weight rather than pulling it. I'm trying to figure out what that feels and looks like. Also that the upper body arm and shoulder should stay in about the same spot. The separation from the lower body has to happen at the waist and not the shoulder. These are difficult concepts to put into words, and I know these are dumb, dumb basics, but I'm trying to break the code. Does this help explain further what I'm getting at? Tom |
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Aim high. Stay hungry.
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wsciscoe
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Posted: 3/20/13 at 9:44pm |
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I think in general your arms should stay in line with your shoulders but at the point just after your feet switch and land your arm will have to be back behind you a little because the weight is moving slower than you are at that point. then from what i understand that is where you try to accelerate the weight back up to the trig. (In my case this is where I sometimes lean too far forward) so yes there is some bicep, pectoral, and deltoids working there. Also all of the muscles that rotate your core. I think the reason you are sore after is you are trying to bully the weight around possibly cause timing is off. I wish I knew more to tell you but remember I am the guy who is healing after a face plant trying to do this very thing.
One other thing that helped me a little. If you can't accelerate the weight on the second turn slow down the first. Don't pull like mad right from the get go. think more about just getting the weight moving at first then accelerate on the 2nd turn and pull hard at the finish. Most of the throw is in the finish. |
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Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Duncan McCallum
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Posted: 3/20/13 at 10:03pm |
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I'll do you one better Tom...
What are you doing April 11th? |
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The man in the arena.
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TomLawrence
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Posted: 3/21/13 at 3:25am |
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Gleann -- thanks. Your first two sentences line up with what I'm understanding. I just don't have good words for it.
Duncan -- PM sent. Tom |
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Aim high. Stay hungry.
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C Cook
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Posted: 3/21/13 at 5:17am |
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Tom, I threw and still throw on occasion at 210-215lbs. I'll be happy to help with this. Give me a call. I'm off this weekend. I definitely cast then turn. I can still manage a 32ft 56wfd without practice using this technique. I'm old too. 15 minutes away bud.
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jsully
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Posted: 3/21/13 at 5:47am |
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http://youtu.be/uhwhYj8rsSc
as a new thrower, you don't need to learn about pushing the weight right now imo.
Let gravity do it's job. Keep your arm loose and relaxed. Get your hips in front of the weight as if you were dragging it, but let it (the weight) catch up as it's falling, then explode when it hits the low point. While it's falling, you should be transferring weight from your right leg to your left leg to prep for a big push forward on the sprint. Then it's the same thing after the 2nd turn. Get in front of the weight as if you're dragging it then allow the weight to fall to it's low point. As it's falling, your weight on your left leg and when your hand feels heaviest explode forward and up. Chest high.
"Pushing the weight" is an advanced tech and while it's very accurate, it's also very confusing for throwers that are still learning the basics.
You can literally walk through a 30ft throw with the 56 if your positions are right, just by letting gravity do the work for you. Once you figure out how to do that, then you can start moving forward with pushing the weight. |
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TomLawrence
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Posted: 3/21/13 at 7:01am |
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Chris -- I'll give you a call. We might have a shot at Sunday afternoon if the chance of rain keeps decreasing and if that is okay with you. We'll work out the details on the phone.
Jake -- Thank you sir. You have a particularly graceful style with the two weights and both stone events that I have been trying to emulate. You make it look easy, my friend. The slo-mo helps. All -- this is why the forum and community is so valuable to me. The more people try to lay words on the technique, the closer it gets to clicking in my remedial brain. Tom |
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Aim high. Stay hungry.
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D. Haakenson
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Posted: 3/21/13 at 10:02am |
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I absolutely think that pushing the weight is a good idea and a great mental cue. Establishing a long orbit is a great place to start for any level of athlete and I don't think that it is too advanced or complex to strive for. I think that extremely strong "groove" throwers who are at the peak of their game can and probably do get away with dragging the ball and using mass and strength to overwhelm the moment of the weight. I would still recommend approaching the 1st turn of both weights much more like an Olympic hammer thrower than a discus thrower.
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 3/21/13 at 6:48pm |
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Watch Sully's video.
watch the left arm sweeeet |
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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matt
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World Champ - '99 -'03 Joined: 9/06/04 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 109 |
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Posted: 3/26/13 at 2:00am |
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Tips, stay relaxed let the weight run,try keep both feet on the ground and moving.Try doing 3, 4 or even 5 turns .Go for a throwing session and try throwing a 14lb pound weight,this will help with feel. I found the weights for dictance almost like a one handed olympic hammer.Or go with a Francis or Ryan style tech ,different but both very effective. |
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TomLawrence
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Posted: 3/26/13 at 3:31am |
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Good point. I need to get a lighter weight and put in the time doing line drills.
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Duncan McCallum wrote: