how to gain weight and keep cardio up?
Printed From: Nasgaweb
Category: Nasgaweb Forums
Forum Name: Training
Forum Discription: This forum is for discussion about training for the Scottish Heavy Events.
URL: http://www.nasgaweb.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9629
Printed Date: 3/26/26 at 11:21pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.11 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: how to gain weight and keep cardio up?
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Subject: how to gain weight and keep cardio up?
Date Posted: 10/06/09 at 11:08pm
Ive been lifting heavy and eating all the right stuff to gain mass and streinghth for the games but also running 1 mile a day as I want to keep up my cardio. (I also do stonelifting and know you need cardio to carry great weight any distance)problem is Between a fast metabalism and the cardio Im not gaining much weight and if i eat anymore ill burst! Suggestions?
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Replies:
Posted By: Wayne Hill
Date Posted: 10/06/09 at 11:40pm
Eat more often.
------------- "We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 1:29am
|
Do you really need to run a mile in any strongman competition? A mile a day is A LOT and more like a distance athlete's training. I'd seriously consider cutting that back to 'maybe' three times a week.
Now if running is your high, that's something different, but I HATE running and usually have to be dragged screaming the whole way. 
Also, what kind/how much lifting are you doing? You could be doing too much of that too...yes it is possible.
Wayne's got a point on the eating...how many times do you eat a meal each day? (meal = protein/carbs/fats >600cals) I am definitly what was termed a 'hard gainer' most of my life. I only broke 200lbs body weight when I was 25...I only broke 230lbs bw at 39. It happens. But breaking your meals up to more times a day will make the bulk easier to deal with.
Another reason I suggest lowering the running is recovery time. Your body needs DAYS of recovery in a lifting week. Not hours.
|
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 2:34am
|
I hate running to but im on the fire list and have to stay in reasonable shape w/cardio because they could call me up at any time but i could cut it down to 3 times i just have to be ABLE to run a mile if im called lol.
im doin deadlifts,clean and jerk,shrugs,dumbbell snatch,shoulder press and bench oh and curl.
I am havin long recovery I need 4 sometimes 5 days to recover.
I will try to eat more often it,s a little tough w/work im eating 3 sometimes 4 times now?
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Posted By: FlyinFree
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 2:53am
|
this is disussed in this thread
http://www.nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9589&PN=1 - http://www.nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=958 9&PN=1
I think swimming is good
------------- Todd Reese
"Max the Body to tap the Brain, deplete the Brain for Spiritual Dependance
|
Posted By: =Travis=
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 4:00am
|
4 and sometimes 5 days to recover seems like a lot. Maybe if I go for a max lift I'll need a while to recover but at the same time I'll still be doing other lifts. I'd be stale if I only lifted every 4-5 days.
Don't tell me you only lift every 4-5 days, that may be why you aren't getting any bigger. And eat a lot and get enough rest for good recovery.
|
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 4:45am
ya im definatly eating and gettin good sleep reallly sore and drained for at least 3 days afterwards even w/tons of liquid and ibuprofen didnt want to overtrain because i lifted every other day before and didnt grow freinds said i was overtrained take longer between gym days? Im fairly new to heavylifting lifted for boxing but that was lower weight high reps which i could do every other day no sweat?
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Posted By: =Travis=
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 5:23am
|
If you're new to heavy lifting, I doubt you're overtrained unless it's from all the running. Is it you're just sore for a couple days? That'll go away after you get back into it. But if you wait long to lift again because you're just sore, you'll only turn around and make yourself sore again with the DOMS. Lift a few times whether you're sore or not and get over it. There are times when I am sore as hell from heavy squats and the next day I will do lighter weight squats for high rep just for the purpose of helping get over that soreness.
|
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 5:28am
|
so hair of the dog great ill give it a try thanks brother.
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 6:18am
|
Uhm...I agree with Travis' post but not your interpretation (if I got it right).
I lift three days a week now that off season...1)Heavy Legs, 2)Heavy Upper Body, 3)Fast/Lighter all body. That gives me one day inbetween and two days between 3 and 1.
My legs will definitely still be sore when I get to upper body and my upper body will be sore when I get to whole body. Then two days off.
But...'hair of the dog' would imply that you should do squats one day and get right back at legs the next...I would not recommend that at all. Travis is most likely doing range of motion (ROM) stuff to stretch out legs and get blood flow into remove lactic acid. I doubt he is 'training' legs again...(but maybe he is more of a beast than I know).
Also you may need to address your rep/set ranges. (This came up in the deadlift thread just now.) You really may not want to be going to full and totall failure every workout. You need lots of regular lift days (say for a pump or sweat) then some max days (say to nausea) [LOL...ok that last may just apply to me..:^)]
We are all shooting in the dark here. If you post your schedule...lifts, runs, food, etc it would be more helpful.
Good Luck
|
Posted By: =Travis=
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 7:01am
dl_buffy wrote:
Travis is most likely doing range of motion (ROM) stuff to stretch out legs and get blood flow into remove lactic acid. I doubt he is 'training' legs again...(but maybe he is more of a beast than I know). |
Yep.
And every once in a while if I have to because something comes up, (like this week I have to leave town for a funeral,) I will lift back to back day to get my week's work in. Its tough but then those few days when I'm away from lifting are spent recouperating. So I hit squats on monday, did some overhead work and benched yesterday and will do my usual friday deadlift day tonight.
|
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 7:08am
|
yes ive been goin to max everytime trying to build streighth quickly (i know what you mean about nausea ive litterly worked till i puked twice lol)it,s been working for streighth ive gone up 10-20 lbs. per workout per exercise havnt platued yet(i realy need to download that spellchecker)last workout was clean and jerks,shrugs,deadlifts,dumbell snatch,curls,wrist curls,shoulder press,crunches and 1 mile run . been eating oatmeal,egg whites,banana and carnation instant breakfast for well breakfast then-lunch peanut butter,almond butter,banana sandwich and yogurt-dinner rare steak and piles of buttery mashed -then 9pm bowl of ziti w/olive oil put carbs on for the next day. pretty much the same everyday.
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Posted By: =Travis=
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 8:18am
|
You need to eat more, see the other thread about 190 pounders.
|
Posted By: Pingleton
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 8:34am
|
I am not endorsing any of the ideas or suggestions in this article, and it is not the route I would take, but it seems exactly on point. JM Blakely was a member of the Westside crew.
|
The Big Boy's Menu Plan by JM Blakely
Good Eating
Cold, hard fact number one: If you gain weight, you will get stronger. Everybody already knows that. Even if most of the weight is not good weight, it will nevertheless have a positive effect on strength. Of course, there is the argument that the weight one gains should be quality weight (i.e. muscle, which is preferable) but the truth is that even adipose and water weight can contribute to heavier poundages lifted.
It is beyond the scope of this article to address the exact physiological mechanisms for this but tissue leverage is commonly cited as the main reason for the phenomenon. My purpose is not to explain why this happens but rather to explain how to take advantage of the fact that it happens. Weight moves weight!
If you understand and accept this, you have probably tried to bulk up?Eat some point in your training. You also have probably experienced the frustration, first-hand, of just how difficult it can be to gain weight. Anyone can gain 15-20 pounds (and they often do on accident!) but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm speaking of adding on 35-40 pounds on purpose with a combination of extra-heavy lifting and extra-heavy eating!
If anyone is confused about what I'm saying here then this article is not for you. I won't waste your time explaining and justifying the need for some lifters to put on weight. But for those of you who have been desperately trying to get your weight up and crack through a plateau, let's get to it. Why can't you seem to gain weight?
DO THE MATH
Quite simply, you aren't eating enough! I know, I know, you eat all the time, you eat more than everyone you know, you have a fast metabolism, yadda, yadda, yadda. I know all the excuses. I used them myself. I even believed them. But there are rules in the universe. We are bound by the laws of physics and no one is pardoned. Creating a positive caloric balance is completely defined by the equation: calories in vs. calories out = calories net.
That's it. No one escapes it. If you eat more calories than you use in a day, you will gain weight. Period. There is some fluxuation for metabolic shifts and the efficiency of the body's absorption of calories, granted, but this effect is small and it is the rare person who exhibits a metabolism that could bear the blame for one unable to manipulate their weight. More about this later, but for now get it straight- your metabolism is not to be a scapegoat for your lack of discipline.
You must eat more. If your metabolism speeds up then you must eat even more to cover that. There is a limit to how fast your metabolism can run. You must stay ahead of it. And you must learn to control it. Above all, you must accept the unarguable fact that you must put more food into your mouth.
My favorite question to ask those people who think they are eating tons of food but not gaining weight is, "what do you weigh?" Then when they answer (let's say 195 lbs. for example) I respond "and how long have you weighed that?" They almost always answer that they have been at their current weight for over one year and often much longer.
To this I quip "then you are eating enough to maintain 195 pounds. If you want to weigh 215, you need to eat more than a person who weighs 195. You have to eat like a person who weighs 215! You have proven that you eat only enough to keep your weight steady. You've been 195 for some time now! And what you're eating is enough to hold that. But it's not enough to drive it up. So if you think you're eating all this extra food, think again. You're eating a maintenance feed lot. You need a growth feed lot!
If you've been eating like a 215 pounder all last year, you would weigh 215 now! You're not eating any more than any other 195 pounder! Try harder! Eat more!" The only hole in this example is the energy output of the individual. But all things being equal, I hope you are getting the point here. You can't gain weight if you don't eat more.
The general principle is this: train as hard as you can to create a stimulus for growth. Then feed the body everything it needs to adapt. You must cover three needs. The recovery, the repair, and the growth. Some trainees only eat enough to recover from the last workout. They will end up overtrained because they aren't meeting the need for repair and their tissues begin to break down under the strain of heavy lifting.
Other lifters will eat enough to recover and repair, but not enough to cover the expense of growth. These lifters end up on a constant plateau, having hard workouts, recovering from them and not overtraining, but never seeing progress. It's a stalemate (the maintenance feed lot group). They train for years and somehow excuse the lack of results to genetics or another bogey man.
You have to cover all three aspects of nutrient need recovery, repair, and growth. First , eat enough to recover from the stress of a training session. Second, eat enough to repair any damage the workout may have caused.(If you are training very heavy, there is always micro-trauma occurring at the cellular level). Third, you must eat even more to cover the cost of your body building itself up. If you don't eat these extra calories, where will the body get the energy to do the building? And what ,pray tell, do you suppose it will use for building material?
Your body needs stuff (matter) to build with. You can't build something out of nothing. The body needs substance to convert into body mass. That substance is food.
The only way to be absolutely certain that you are getting the most out of your workout is to eat more than you need for recovery, repair, and growth. You will begin to see a bit of bodyfat start to accumulate. Please don't misunderstand me and think I'm telling everyone to get obesely fat. I'm only suggesting a light layer of "winter weight" or a "softening" You should never let your bodyfat percentage rise above unhealthy levels, and never put on what you can't get off.
This is what I call bathing the cells in nutrients. You give them all they need and then a little bit extra which you can see usually around your middle. Remember; it's OK to put it on to gain strength if you also plan to take it off later and maintain your new strength level when you diet. Just make sure you get around to dieting sooner or later! This way every workout has the nutrients it needs to give it the chance to be fully effective.
Step one is the realization that you are ,in fact, not eating enough. Some trainees will admit this but then have trouble with the work of eating. To this I say only: DISCIPLINE! You must eat on schedule. You must eat what you are supposed to. You must not excuse yourself from eating what you are supposed to when you are supposed to. This is the self same discipline that everyone recognizes the need for in losing weight.
It is no different for you who would choose to gain weight. No one feels sorry for a person who says they are trying to lose a few pounds and then proceeds to attend meetings with Ronald McDonald, Ben and Jerry, and Bud Weiser. And I don't feel sorry for those who lack the discipline to eat more.
I know how difficult it can be. But I am reminded of the time I was complaining to a friend about how hard I was trying to get my weight up to 300 pounds and how tough it was for me to eat so much, and boo-hoo-hoo. The friend looked at me, clearly fed up with my whining, and remarked "I see several people over 300 lbs at work (he was a physical therapist) and they really don't seem to be trying all that hard! They weigh 300 and they don't try!"
This put it in better perspective for me. I even had the advantage of working out with weights to help boost my weight and these guys were out eating me and my best effort without so much as a second thought. If people can do it on accident, I could certainly do it on purpose! And I did. So can you.
Admit that you are undereating. Then admit that you are not trying your best. I don't believe you if you tell me you can't eat any more than you are eating now. If you tell me you can't eat any more, I'll tell you that you just can't have what you want then. (I never argue with someone who tells me they can't). That's the universe's law, not mine. If you can't do the work, you can't have the reward. Sorry. Now, do you really mean can't or is it more like won't? If you want it, you can. Ask anybody who has.
Those are the two biggest roadblocks to gaining weight. Admitting that you are not doing the job and that your effort has been less than stellar, and realizing that if others can do it so can you. Once you accept those responsibilities, instead of complaining and passing the buck, you can get to the business of getting down to it. And that, my friends, is the same in all endeavors, if you are willing to pay the price, you can have the reward.
I will readily admit that it seems to be easier for some than others. But the price is relative. You are not anyone else. You must not compare the ease or difficulty which you are presented to anyone else's situation. So what if it is easier for your pal to gain weight than you? What does that have to do with you? Nothing. Your task is your task. If you must eat 400 calories more than him to get the same results, then that's the price for you . You decide for yourself whether to pay up or not.
Oh yeah, I should mention - life's not fair. He got a discount and you got taxed. So what? You can still both have it. Are you willing to pay or not? If you're not, you're not. But your reason shouldn't be because it cost you more than someone else. When someone wants something bad enough they'll pay double! They don't care- they are just happy to get it.
What I'm telling you is that you can gain weight if you accept the fact that it is possible and that it is going to be hard. I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it. Get rid of any excuse or explanation for not gaining other than I'm not trying hard enough. I must try harder. Then you're on your way. Blame only yourself for past shortcomings and resolve to bring whatever it takes to the table from now on.
Tricks of the Trade: Big Boy's Menu Plan
One secret is caloric density. Learn to eat foods that provide more calories per unit volume. That is, they give you lots of calories for how much space they take up in the gut. 250 calories of salad fills you up even with the dressing but a chocolate bar would only feel like a snack.
Also, add lots of condiments to your food. Carry mayo with you and add lots of it to everything. Same goes for Thousand Island dressing and chocolate sauce. Be creative and never eat anything that you don't add calories to in some way. Melt provolone cheese over your pasta. Put ranch dressing on your pizza. Dip potato chips in honey. I don't care what sick and twisted combinations you come up with, as long as you find it palatable.
You wouldn't believe some of the things I've eaten. ( Try a bowl full of peanut butter smothered in maple syrup and a stick of butter in the microwave for 30 seconds. Lay two Hershey bars over it to melt and you'll just start to understand.)
Carry food with you. Always have a jar of peanuts in your car. Carry Pop-Tarts, Slim Jim meat snacks, candy bars, anything handy that travels well and needs no special preparation. Never get caught away from food. Put it in your desk, your locker, your gym bag, your brief case, hell, carry some around in your pockets if you have to! Never miss a meal because you couldn't eat.
What's that? Couldn't eat? It takes less than 50 seconds to eat two candy bars. That's over 500 calories. Even if you have to sneak it on the job, go to the john and wolf them down. You must never be without food. Take some with you. and never say you didn't have time (50 seconds?!) or opportunity. Find time or make time.
Eat immediately upon arising. Start right away. You lost time sleeping - you weren't eating! Fill up first thing in the morning. Don't wait! You went several hours without any food. The longer you wait the less time you have to get all the food your supposed to eat down. If you wait long enough it will be impossible to make it. You'll run out of time.
Get off to a solid start. Minimum first meal calories: 1200. Eat over a grand right away and the rest of the day will be easier. Eat less, and you'll be playing catch-up all day long.
Eat just prior to bed. You are going to go for hours without food?Euel up! This is your last chance to feed your body for a long time give it one last push. This is uncomfortable for many, but with practice you will adapt and be able to eat a good calorie load before retiring. Shoot for 500 calories minimum.
Try foods you used to dislike or have never eaten before. After several weeks of overeating, everything begins to taste the same. Even your favorite foods lose their flavor. You exhaust your repertoire of choices. Open it up. Go for the calamari or the shark fin soup. Try a quiche. Eat at an ethnic restaurant.
Find new favorites that you can eat lots of. I hated cottage cheese as a youngster, but now I mix it in with spaghetti and dump it into soups! I even eat the fat free variety on a reducing diet! You will surprise yourself. Don't be afraid to try. You may still dislike salmon, but you may get a taste for artichoke after all.
Drink regular soda pop (possibly caffeine free) and whole milk. Never drink any fluids that don't have calories. No tea without sugar, no coffee without cream and sugar, no diet beverages whatsoever. No plain water! Canned soda pop is an excellent source of purified water. But it also has precious calories. Gatorade is fine and has electrolytes as well. 108 ounces a day is the minimum.
But don't fill your stomach without putting some calories in along with. A 12 0z. can of soda pop has about 150 calories. Quench your thirst and give your body more calories at the same time. ( I'm not knocking water, folks, I'm just illustrating that you can hydrate yourself and get calories in the bargain. )
Count your calories. You may think you are consuming an abundance of food, but you're probably giving yourself too much credit. It is very hard to eat over 5000 calories every day for weeks on end. And if its 7 or 8,000 you think you're getting in every day I think you'd better check that. Often a trainee will eat 6,000 calories on Monday, but then stoop to 3500 or so for the next two days.
Then Thursday maybe get 5500 and follow that for two days of 3000. all the while they believe that they are eating 6000 every day. Avoid this kind of fluxuation. Keep a solid average. And keep track. At least for a series of days every now and then. A few days a month check up on yourself. If your goal is 5500 calories a day add it all up and make sure. You'll soon get better at estimating and you won't have to go through this so much.
But take my advice, if you are not seeing the scale move the way you think it should, double check your count. You most likely are overestimating your intake. This gives you feedback so you can make adjustments. Even if you're an old pro at calorie counting it's a good idea to take account every so often.
Issues and Precautions
This kind of diet is admittedly not the most conducive to your overall health. But we should get one thing straight - you are not doing it for health reasons, you are doing it for better performance in your chosen sport. This is one of those "quality of life" issues. You choose to pursue powerlifting because of reasons other than improved health such as challenge, personal pride, self esteem benefits, sense of strength, or any other of a basket full of psycho/emotional reasons not to mention the sheer fun of it!
There are plenty of health benefits to the sport of powerlifting and weight training in general which have all been outlined many times before. I acknowledge those, of course, I'm just saying that if you are competing and trying to bulk up, you probably have more personal motives for continuing to put so much into this sport. And those motives most likely supersede any health benefits.
Having said that, let me turn the table back on your health. This style of diet can have very serious effects on your body. One effect is a dramatic improvement in your strength. But another effect is an increase in your blood cholesterol level! It would be irresponsible of me to ignore the down side?E So I'll give a few suggestions of what I feel is prudent and responsible behavior that would accompany such an eating program. (It's all common sense, anyway!)
Have your cholesterol checked before you begin. Get a baseline. If you have high levels, you may want to reconsider and see your doctor about options to lower it.
Check your cholesterol every 15-20 pounds that you gain. Or every 10 weeks on the diet. Set a limit with your doctor as to how high you will permit it to rise and remain on the diet. If it goes above such-and-such a number, abort .
Do some form of cardiovascular exercise. Minimum 3 days per week. I know you don't want to spend the precious calories on cardio, but the cv exercise will help keep the cholesterol down as well as abating some of the inevitable sluggishness that comes with weight gain. I've done it both with and without cv and I feel much ,much better with a daily walk. And you can eat just one more snickers bar to cover it. All the while your heart gets some exercise and your metabolism doesn't get so loggy.
Check your blood pressure at the start and then every four days while on the diet. Get your own monitor or find one of the countless free places that you can have it taken for you. Use the same equipment every time. Expect some increase in bp. Consult your doctor and make a decision as to what you both will tolerate. If your bp goes past the limit you have set, abort.
Issues of sleep apnea can develop. This is a tough disorder in which you interrupt your breathing for a few seconds all through the night and wake up in the morning exhausted from gasping for 8 hours! This affects a huge number of people in the US but commonly is made worse by gaining weight. If it affects you, you may not know it?Eouâ??re asleep while it's going on. But sooner or later someone will tell you, your wife, your girlfriend, your next-door neighbor.
It's often confused for a bad case of snoring. But after a couple of weeks of full nights rest and an accompanying deep fatigue, you will begin to suspect something is wrong. I wish I had some sort of fix-it for this but the only advice I can give is to try propping yourself up at a slight incline when you sleep and put up with it as much as your significant other will allow. If it is too much of a problem, seek medical attention and decide what else to try. If you must , abort. You won't see the progress you want in your training if you're not getting the rest you need.
Have a full blood work up done (this will most likely accompany your cholesterol but ask for it any way. These days health care professionals are cutting costs and if you ask for cholesterol values that may be all that gets run!) . Of special interest are : triglycerides, liver enzymes, thyroid levels especially T-4 and TSH, and any values having to do with pancreatic function. These can become upset with drastic changes in dietary habits and need an eye kept on them.
Measure your bodyfat percentage. Set a limit to how high you will let it go. Remeasure it every 10 pounds you gain. See how many pounds are muscle and how many are fat. A good bargain is 1 pound of muscle for every 2-3 lbs of fat.
If you are a master lifter, consider your medications and consult your doctor about the effect weight gain may have on any of them especially heart meds. Your dosage may need to be adjusted.
Remember that the weight gain is to be temporary. You should plan a reducing diet to follow at a specified time in your training. This is where you attempt to maintain most of the new strength you amassed during the bulking phase while lowering your body fat to the same level you started at. You are not training to get stronger, only to hold the strength you have while dropping the excess.
Commit yourself to the goal of returning to your starting level of bodyfat and see how much of the new strength you're kept. If you diet right, it should be above 80%. So that is your true gain. The gain you keep after gaining and losing the excess bodyfat is what counts. If you gain 20 lbs on your bench and lose 15 when you diet, you missed the point. If you gain 20 lbs on the bench and keep 15 (16) you've achieved something and done it correctly. Now repeat this process as necessary!!
I suggest that you only hold your weight heavy for no longer than 5-6 months before you diet back down. Each time you repeat this process, you will hold more strength and have more muscle mass than before. Avoid staying heavy too long. It is only temporary!
These things will help you minimize the risks associated with the rigors of body weight manipulation. Competitive sports all have risks. Every highschooler who puts on a football helmet on Friday night and knocks heads with the cross-town rivals takes the risk of spinal injury. Risks are unavoidable and usually increase with the level of play. Just be responsible.
Take care of yourself within the risks. Do what you can to minimize them. Pay attention. If you don't watch your blood pressure, how do you know if you might not be begging for a stroke? For Christmas sake, at least know what you're levels are. You can always decide to do what is right for you. Continue or stop. Or continue on a different course. But at least do the best you can to stay as healthy as you can.
Remember: If you want to beat the man, you've got to out -eat the man!
Good eating,
J.M. | |
| http://tnation.tmuscle.com/reportPostPrep.do?id=3371868 - |
-------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.
- George Bernard Shaw
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 8:47am
|
IRISHIRONMAN wrote:
last workout was clean and jerks,shrugs,deadlifts,dumbell snatch,curls,wrist curls,shoulder press,crunches
|
Dude...how long were you in the gym?!?! Clean and Jerk, Deads, Snatch?!?! All in one work out?
That is not max effort...that is max endurance. Completely different.
|
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 12:29pm
|
About 2 and a half hours? im doin 2 5rep sets w/little rest between sets because ive no patience for sitting around between sets.
think i should break it up into 2days?
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Posted By: Coach Mac
Date Posted: 10/07/09 at 12:41pm
|
H'mmmm....I always get the feeeling that most of the un-initiated are following the path made popular in the late 1950's-and 60's in the USA that MORE is better ?
I quess I should make a post called : STOP the INSANITY !!!
We have some modern warriors on here that they have to be either independantly wealthy (based on there projected medical bills ) or have great medical insurance and lots of time tooo re-hab ?
The crazy thing to me is that it seems to mostly SELF INDUCED ?
The throwers at the college level with a training age of 4-6 years do 9 lifts a WEEK ( 3 too failure) and this is producing 30-40LB increases in speed lifts (snatch/clean) increased speed and jumping ability every 6-weeks with NO injuries .
We do run hills (forwards and backwards= leg work) as well as do a ton of release movements with heavy hammers and wts (= pulls) as well as HEAVY ( 25-35-lb SHots ) so its ADJUNCT Training for throws .
------------- Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/08/09 at 1:48am
|
Sorry Coach, I have no idea what you just said.
Irish...you are training like an endurance athlete. You are not training like a power athlete. You will have to make your own choices here. 2.5 hours in the gym on every work out is way too much for power/strength. I have read of some strong ('natural') people that get everything done in 45 minutes or so. I tend to take just over an hour because I USE up a lot of rest time between 2-3 minutes.
I use that much time because of sport specificity...I have never had to throw again in under 2 minutes in Highland Games. (Even when I am on my third attempt and no one else is (thanks A's at backyard games :-/) then I will still take a minute to catch my breath.)
So taking the food advice and the lifting stuff....you are eating for what you weigh now and you are lifting like an endurance athlete. You saw all those gaines as a 'begginer' in this kind of workout. Everyone gets lots of good gains at start. It takes smarts and planning to continue gains in long run.
You will need to figure out what your goals in gym/sports/life really are. If you want to be a highland games/strength athlete you need to do the following....
1) Get a real power lift workout (Learn difference between max effort and endurance....low sets, low reps and still feeling like puke...about 1hr in gym...etc etc.) 2) Get serious about your diet. You will need to eat more and more often. If you are not gaining, you are not eating enough, if you are getting fat you are eating too much...it is that simple at it's basics
This is all very generic, but there are LOTS of specifics all over this forum, just search for them and there are lots of guys that are better than me....bigger than me....and stronger than me. (I just have degrees in this stuff so think I know it all... ) I am still pushing to get bigger (+15lbs) and stronger (600lb dead)....I still rely on the guys here that have done it to tell me what I am doing wrong. This kind of lifting is rarified air....top 99th percentile kinda thing. Most of your internet and 'trainer' in the gym have no idea.
|
Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 10/08/09 at 1:52am
What Coach said is right, it is intensity that builds muscle, not volume. Don't work long, work hard, go home and eat and rest up and do it again.
------------- Mule
Sportkilt AST Sport Supplements
|
Posted By: 17/20
Date Posted: 10/08/09 at 2:26am
|
Well crafted summation Coach Mac. No question, it is self iuced.
By the way your thoughts on German volume training which I had the pleasure of using when it migrated to the USA in the late 70's ( or sooner) My experience was with the 10x10 back squat with very strict recovery (90 seconds) same weight x2 per week with mininal jumps in wt. over a 3 month period. This was coupled with hi-rep step ups, hi-hurdle bounding and yoke running up a 45 degree hill approx. 20 yards. The throwing was done with heavy implements 18 and 20 full rotations and 22 for standing drills.
Anyways, your thoughts as I'am considering this routine. I would include alot of heavy hammer winds, kb/pud release movements, wt fr dist. turning drills with a 35 and 70 lb kb and shot drills/full throws with an 18.
------------- I MAY BE BIG , BUT I'M FAST
|
Posted By: Mike Wills
Date Posted: 10/08/09 at 4:26am
Here's how I approach things now in the off-season, after dozens of injuries and also a lot of success at building size and strength:
- Warmups are key. I think this is the most important part of my workout now. Throw on the neoprene, work some heavy bag, then do some functional warmup ROM stuff, then some light warmups with the bar, emphasizing the area you will be working out. If this kills you, and you can't lift after doing it, then you aren't in good enough shape to be lifting hard! I have a great deal of scar tissue to support this hypothesis.
- Choose your lifts wisely. Pick 3-4 multi-joint exercises (like squats, high pulls, push presses and core crushers) that are suited to helping you reach your goals, and go at them hard. I usually only do 2-3 work sets on each of these.
- Accessory work is only to prevent injuries/imbalances. After you have done your hard work, it's okay to do a little neck work, grip work, calf raises, etc...but this is not done at high intensity, it is only to make sure that you are addressing minor weak links.
- Stretch. After you do your workout, sit in front of the TV for a half hour and stretch. After the muscles are warm and tired is the best time to stretch. This sets you up for success the next time.
- Eat. Make sure you get high quality protein 4-6 x/day and drink plenty of water.
- Rest. You need good sleep and some off days. Working out hard every day does not work.
|
Posted By: FlyinFree
Date Posted: 10/08/09 at 6:22am
|
wow!!! lots to learn
Though I must say- at the Ocala games there were a few lean muscular guys killing it. And there we ALOT of big guys that weren't.
"technique in the throw" SEEMED, from my inexperienced eyes, to be more critical than bruit power.
continuing to read
Todd
------------- Todd Reese
"Max the Body to tap the Brain, deplete the Brain for Spiritual Dependance
|
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Date Posted: 10/08/09 at 8:36am
well i have a lot more information i,ll have to go thru it all and find the common themes but i think i get the gist lift heavier,break all those exercises up into 2-3 other workouts,eat a lot more and stay active rom ect. on the off days. thanks everyone appreciate all the advice.
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 1:31am
|
STOP POSTING IN BIG BOLD FONT!

Thank you,
The management
-------------
|
Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 2:54am
|
I THINK I MIGHT START DOING THAT FROM NOW ON TOO.
------------- Andrew G
Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!
|
Posted By: nesa
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 3:17am
|
Simple question to answer before you get into anything else...
What are you?
Are you a thrower, a strongman, or a runner?
You can't be great at all 3. If you want to be an "also ran" then continue training for all 3 and accept the position...if you want to be a top athlete focus on one and train for that alone.
Good Luck with the training.
Erik
------------- Proud member of "Team Fulsterkur"
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 4:06am
C. Smith wrote:
STOP POSTING IN BIG BOLD FONT!

Thank you, The management |
  
I was wondering about the choice in font...:^)
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 4:11am
FlyinFree wrote:
wow!!! lots to learn
Though I must say- at the Ocala games there were a few lean muscular guys killing it. And there we ALOT of big guys that weren't.
"technique in the throw" SEEMED, from my inexperienced eyes, to be more critical than bruit power.
continuing to read
Todd
|
Technique is huge in a few of the throws. Technique helps in some others. (In my experience.) As for the skinny guys...(CHAD!)...do not doubt that they are strong. Strong does NOT equal big. In fact the stronger you can be...at the lightest weight you can be...would make you the better competitor because you are moving less weight total...but with the strength to move the implement.
On some throws where brute strength helps...then some of the skinnier guys do have to rely on technique to keep up. I just watched a couple of novices in St Louis with massive strength an no technique ( ) still make some good distances. But you could tell the technique issues from hammer, wfd, caber, and sheaf.
So you got it right...there are tons of posts on here about technique too.
|
Posted By: S McCracken
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 4:53am
dl_buffy wrote:
[/QUOTE] | Strong does NOT equal big.
[/QUOTE]
I would have to say every Pro on the board would dissagree with this statement.
------------- North American Highlander Ohio Chair
www.nahighlander.com
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 5:29am
S McCracken wrote:
dl_buffy wrote:
Strong does NOT equal big. |
I would have to say every Pro on the board would dissagree with this statement. |
Tell me the guy in the red shorts is not strong...3 x body weight!
https://store.sorinex.com/Articles.asp?ID=163 - https://store.sorinex.com/Articles.asp?ID=163
Maybe I should fine tune that for the pedantics? Hypertrophy does not necessarly equal strong...and strong does not necessarily equal hypertrophy.
ps....and Chad G is an AWESOME thrower...but not the biggest...just built right. There's a pro for the non-beefy throwers.
|
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 5:41am
dl_buffy wrote:
In fact the stronger you can be...at the lightest weight you can be...would make you the better competitor because you are moving less weight total...but with the strength to move the implement.
|
A better competitor in what? Not HG.
-------------
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 6:05am
|
C. Smith wrote:
A better competitor in what? Not HG. |
So, and I am willing to hear if I am wrong, two guys...both dead 450lb and similar throwing technique but one weighs 300 and one weighs 230...
...in Highland Games the 300lb'er would be just as competitive as the 230'er and the fact that he is moving 70lbs more body weight at the same strength levels would not hamper him?
|
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 6:11am
|
And if I am wrong then you have destroyed all my hopes and dreams of highland games and I will have nothing left to look forward to......
(no pressure from the guy that gains like 1lb a year....)

|
Posted By: S McCracken
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 6:36am
dl_buffy wrote:
S McCracken wrote:
dl_buffy wrote:
Strong does NOT equal big. |
I would have to say every Pro on the board would dissagree with this statement. |
Tell me the guy in the red shorts is not strong...3 x body weight!
https://store.sorinex.com/Articles.asp?ID=163 - https://store.sorinex.com/Articles.asp?ID=163
Maybe I should fine tune that for the pedantics? Hypertrophy does not necessarly equal strong...and strong does not necessarily equal hypertrophy.
ps....and Chad G is an AWESOME thrower...but not the biggest...just built right. There's a pro for the non-beefy throwers.
|
Im not compairing strenght and BW. Im saying you have to have some ass to help move the weights around trig.
------------- North American Highlander Ohio Chair
www.nahighlander.com
|
Posted By: IRISHIRONMAN
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 8:00am
I was attempting to keep everyone from goin blind sitting on the computer staring at tiny print did'nt realize it was a problem sorry i guess i generaly beleive everything in life should be big and bold! thanks again
------------- There are two kinds of men in the world the Irish and those who wish they were!
|
Posted By: S McCracken
Date Posted: 10/09/09 at 11:54am
dl_buffy wrote:
C. Smith wrote:
A better competitor in what? Not HG. |
So, and I am willing to hear if I am wrong, two guys...both dead 450lb and similar throwing technique but one weighs 300 and one weighs 230...
...in Highland Games the 300lb'er would be just as competitive as the 230'er and the fact that he is moving 70lbs more body weight at the same strength levels would not hamper him?
|
http://www.nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9585 - http://www.nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=958 5
------------- North American Highlander Ohio Chair
www.nahighlander.com
|
Posted By: Skip Wiley
Date Posted: 10/11/09 at 10:09pm
from Testosterone Nation an interview with Dave Tate .for all you "hard gainers"
There was a time at the Old Westside gym where I couldn't gain weight to save my f**king life. There
was this dude who trained there who could just put on weight like
f**king magic. He'd go from 198 to 308 and then to 275 and back down to
198. And he was never fat. It was amazing. I finally asked him one day how he did it. "You mean I never told you the secret to gaining weight? Come outside and I'll fill you in." Now
remember, we're at Westside Barbell. And this guy wants to go outside
to talk so no one else can hear. Think about that for a minute. What
the hell is he going to tell me? This must be some serious shit if we
have to go outside, I thought. So we get outside and he starts talking. "For
breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from
McDonalds. I don't care which ones you get, but make sure to get four.
Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put
them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish
that shit down and eat. That's your breakfast." At this point I'm thinking this guy is nuts. But he's completely serious. "For
lunch you're gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don't want you eating that
crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG
bullshit. I don't care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat
for at least 45 minutes straight. You can't let go of the fork. Eat
until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like
the woman behind the counter." "For dinner you're
gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally
everything. If you don't like sardines, don't put 'em on, but anything
else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the
delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open
that f**ker up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola
oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit
over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out
of it." "Now before you lay into it, I want you
to sit on your couch and just stare at that f**ker. I want you to
understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals." This guy is in a zen-like state when he's talking about this. "Now
you're on the clock," he continues. "After 20 minutes your brain is
going to tell you you're full. Don't listen to that shit. You have to
try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark.
Double up pieces if you have to. I'm telling you now, you're going to
get three or four pieces in and you're gonna want to quit. You f**king
can't quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done. And
if you can't finish it, don't you ever come back to me and tell me you
can't gain weight. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you that you don't give a f**k
about getting bigger and you don't care how much you lift!" Did
I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months.
Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn't get much fatter. One
of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, though.
------------- I see weak people
|
Posted By: Coach Mac
Date Posted: 10/12/09 at 1:58pm
17/20 wrote:
Well crafted summation Coach Mac. No question, it is self iuced.
By the way your thoughts on German volume training which I had the pleasure of using when it migrated to the USA in the late 70's ( or sooner) My experience was with the 10x10 back squat with very strict recovery (90 seconds) same weight x2 per week with mininal jumps in wt. over a 3 month period. This was coupled with hi-rep step ups, hi-hurdle bounding and yoke running up a 45 degree hill approx. 20 yards. The throwing was done with heavy implements 18 and 20 full rotations and 22 for standing drills.
Anyways, your thoughts as I'am considering this routine. I would include alot of heavy hammer winds, kb/pud release movements, wt fr dist. turning drills with a 35 and 70 lb kb and shot drills/full throws with an 18.
|
Don- always enjoy your "perceptive" posts. German Volumne Training ( circa -2010 )
3-different Squats (attack the muscle from diffferent angles) your choice ...for 3 x 10 and a flush set too failure ( 3-inch (RANGE of MOTION) lunges for 15-25 reps) so there is your 10-sets and we drop a rep and ADD weight each week for 6-week training block ( 8-weeks is too many ) so you end up with 10-sets of 5 the last week.
We just tested our fr-soph kids on Safety Squats and our 171-lb soph decathalete was our LOW man at note I thought he did more than he did (545) NOT 705 lbs ( ) and a very talented frosh putter 280-lbs) 800 and in the believe it or not dept our hardest working kid ( 265-lbs 108 discus p.r in high school) just missed 890-lbs. So this PROGRAM works !!!
Legs
------------- Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay
|
Posted By: FlyinFree
Date Posted: 10/13/09 at 6:55am
nesa wrote:
Simple question to answer before you get into anything else...
What are you?
Are you a thrower, a strongman, or a runner?
You can't be great at all 3. If you want to be an "also ran" then continue training for all 3 and accept the position...if you want to be a top athlete focus on one and train for that alone.
Good Luck with the training.
Erik
|
good post
I have been a muscly runner.
I am getting stronger
and I plan to throw
This was a good post and it calls me out. When I went for ironman I ultimatley committed and lived it to be as elite as I could. We will have to see.
Thansk for "calling me out on this"
------------- Todd Reese
"Max the Body to tap the Brain, deplete the Brain for Spiritual Dependance
|
Posted By: 17/20
Date Posted: 10/13/09 at 11:51am
|
Coach Mac thanks, very interesting approach to hi-volume. I like the variety in movements and the taper to the 10x5. Those are some world class squat numbers your crew is putting up.
Again, thanks!!!
------------- I MAY BE BIG , BUT I'M FAST
|
Posted By: will barron
Date Posted: 10/14/09 at 1:11am
|
what does a big 800 lb safety squat equate to in a raw, high bar medium stance back squat?
that is amazing strength for a throws team. Geez Bob, do I wish I had a coach like you in college...
|
Posted By: Coach Mac
Date Posted: 10/14/09 at 1:51am
will barron wrote:
what does a big 800 lb safety squat equate to in a raw, high bar medium stance back squat?
that is amazing strength for a throws team. Geez Bob, do I wish I had a coach like you in college...
|
Will...according too John Smith (hubby of Connie Price-Smith 65' putter) he thinks its 35-38% MORE than a back squat. Lots of variables..length of legs experiance ect-ect however, the safetys are essentallly OVER_LOAD Front squats and much more POSTURE like to throwing.
EXAMPLE: if your a thrower at the University of Oregon....NO BACKSQUATTING...!
NOTE: maybe Ryan V will comment as he has witnessed our annual SQUAT_QUANTLET (scheduled for this Thors Day ) ?
------------- Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay
|
Posted By: chirolifter
Date Posted: 10/14/09 at 2:16am
|
Coach Mac, do your guys use the handles? Are they full squats?
Thanks
Gene
------------- "It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
Gene Flynn
|
|