This is basically a continuation of the “cancelled games” thread, but it has nothing to do with the topic and since that thread has already gone down a different path I didn’t want to push it farther.  Anyway, a couple people mentioned new throwers not needing to spend money on a kilt if it’s their first games or newcomer throwing clinics that are free... great ideas for sure.  However I find it anomalous that folks are looking out for ways to get more throwers involved in our hobby by saving them money, yet nearly all games (within driving distance from me anyway) charge a fee to throw.

Thinking of the original thread and the closing of not only games but complete festivals, I understand that the bottom line must be suffering and many of the sponsors have pulled out.  I also understand that things like water, lunch, and T-shirts need to be purchased.  I further understand that a registration fee is the best way to insure people will not say they will be there then not show up, leaving the festival or A.D. with extra shirts, etc. not to mention a smaller turn-out and even less money if he/she brings their family or friends who would pay a gate fee.

I’m sure I will get flamed to death for this post, but I find it difficult to understand the need for every thrower to spend $30 or more.  I’m not going to get into all the costs involved from a throwers point of view and say the extra $30 or more is just too much or overkill, but honestly it is almost insulting.  If the cost of having me throw at a game or festival is $30 or more then I want to pass along an apology to the few games that do not charge throwers.  I don’t want to call anyone out or name any games, that is not the purpose of my query, but there are people who believe they should be making money for being A.D. or organizer.  If we are worried about saving festivals and games shouldn’t that be the first place to cut costs?  I sincerely believe if you aren’t doing it because you enjoy it and for the love of the tradition and sport you are missing out and doing nothing to grow this hobby.

1. Whatever fee an AD receives is generally less than the actual cost of running the athletics.  I can't even bring myself to think about what it's cost me.  Maybe the big games in the Midwest are an exception to this.
   
2. Most games in New England do not charge athletes a fee for competing, but we also don't feed them or offer fancy awards or other perks.
   
3. Bad times, whether it's high gas prices or a rotten economy, puts a squeeze on everybody, including the festivals, ADs, spectators, and athletes.  Athletes will be more selective of games, will tend not to bring family members, and so forth.
   

• Have a large number of athletes that pay a fee to compete and roll out the food, awards, and perks.  Fees help cover the added cost of the games, and large fields hopefully draw extra gate via family members.  Maybe the ADs actually make money.  If the athletes consider the cost excessive, maybe they won't come, but this is a matter of supply and demand.
• Limit athlete enrollments.  This makes it much easier to run from the AD's perspective, and doesn't hurt the spectator's experience one bit:  big games just look like a jumble to spectators.  The AD gets a good competition by picking and choosing among athletes.  The question then becomes whether you lose more gate from family members not coming, or more cost because of fewer athletes.
• Another approach:  only have pros.  They cost more from an initial outlay standpoint, but virtually guarantee a good competition and no hassles for the AD.  If the games have a following, the gate will be there to cover it.

Wow.  The funny thing is that today I spent two to three hours at my paid job doing volunteer work for athletics events for MASA.  This does not happen everyday, but it is not unusual.  Not only do I work on coordinating athletics (strictly volunteer), I am on staff or a judge at several games a year (if there is pay, it rarely covers travel expenses) and a volunteer on the board of directors year round for the Virginia Scottish Games and that may as well be a part time job.

Within MASA we try to get games to admit athletes free of charge, but the festivals are not always willing to go along with it.  There are expenses related to putting on athletics and that is a fact of life.  Some games need the extra help to cover expenses, some get along without it. 

There are t-shirts, medals, trophies, water/Gatorade, meals, tent rentals, portajohn rentals, trash pickup, police/security fees, city/county/state licenses, grounds rental fees, insurance,  PA system rentals, table & chair rentals, etc. 

Corporate sponsors are increasingly difficult to reach.  Crowds are dwindling as Braveheart, Rob Roy and all things Scottish fade from folks memories.  Games want to continue, but more and more they need to pinch pennies.   So, they start charging entry fees.  $30 seems steep, but it is a fact of life to keep things going.

A good number of the games I know of are now run by people who know and care about athletics and are doing their best to keep entry fees down and quality of competition up while giving the thrower the best that they can. 

Alex

Ok It has to be said...as for as the kilt, if you want to throw inthe highland games, buy and wear one. If not, then go throw shot and discus at a T&F event.

Next I dont' know many AD's that make one damn dime off the games. It has been explained nicely, now I will just say it bluntly, pay the fee or don't throw.

The Games need that money to continue to exist. I know of one game that due to weather the festival went 10K in the hole for the weekend meaning there were no funds the next year to run the athletics. Fortunately we had 100+ throwers paying 25.00 each so athletics had a base of over 2500.00 to use for the following year since the scot club/ games board had no funds to give us.

If an athlete doesn't want to pay to throw then become good enough to be a top 10 pro and get paid to do this. Otherwise it is what it is and you gotta pay to play the game.

I paid a fee at the worlds, that is the only one I can remember ever paying.  We should not pay a fee, we are the show. 

I have to agree with the posts above and really with Steve, Al and Larry.  I have been throwing for about 15 years anb the AD for the San Antonio Games for 5 years and like the other AD's out there work my ass off to put them on and have them run smoothly. It costs money to put the games on.  I'm not going to go over the costs as it has already been done. 

As far as having James putting on a clinic for the new throwers...it was because he and I were tired of the newbies asking for advice on how to throw the implement and the rules every five seconds and making the class take forever to complete.  That and here is a world class highland games athlete and one hell of a coach giving advice only to hear someone else tell that person something totally different and wrong!!!  You are damn right I am trying to give something to the athletes that choose to compete. I want them to be successful and have a great time...and yes compete again and again...maybe by helping them be successful they will....again...what the hell is wrong with that???

Perhaps as Steve said you should get involved in the ADing of a game and then you may just understand.

And by the way the group that puts on the San Antonio games is a 501 C(3) non profit...which would make it against the law for me to draw any money above my costs...which means I really work for free.  We sponser several scholorships and groups and are very active in our community.  So I do this for the love of my sport...what do you do??

I'll drop $30 taking my wife to the movies.

I'd rather spend the day throwing things.

+1 Bill

I like throwing things, even if i have to pay.

like mom says it is better than doing drugs.

Just a note to add.. one of the best Games i ever went to had no fans only family. 15 $ maybe for hot dogs and water and oh my very first place. and my favorite sword for 1st place.

So no festival, thats ok bring the people who care about you, throw and drink with the people who respect what you do and compete for the love of the games. then go home and brag about it!!!

Thanks to the few people who replied with a constructive, placid post.  Again, the intent was to find out these very things, not have my love for my heritage questioned or be told not to throw etc.  If my post came across with a negative tone I apologize.

So if the throwers only provide 5.4% of the total budget why would you further burden them by continuing to charge?  I’ve done the math, and it doesn’t add up.

Also it’s not just $30.  At the end of the day the total comes to well over $150… I really don’t think I need to go into detail about all the costs involved.  I know I’m not the only person who feels like they are getting kicked when they are down.  Saying things are difficult and that your festival is suffering then turning around and sticking it to the “athletes” as if things are somehow easier on them is simply amiss.  Paying a $10-$15 registration fee so the games have peace of mind that I will show up is one thing, but passing along the cost of the games to the throwers absolutely makes no sense.

Wayne, I think for the most part the games in my area are shooting for the 1^st of the models in your post.  Jeremy McBain is the exception as he organizes and runs a few games without outside funding and doesn’t charge a cent to throw.  I personally agree with his (and the games’ you mentioned in New England) approach of lowering cost instead of forcing throwers to pay.  I’ve only been throwing for 7 years so I don’t know all the “ins and outs” of the games, but from a pure throwers perspective all the extra perks really don’t make the games worth an extra $30 on top of everything else.

Once again, this thread was a continuation of the ideas and posts from the “cancelled games” thread, I’m not just bitching about spending money.  It just seems from my point of view that passing the cost of the games onto the throwers should be the very last resort.  Keeping the competitor attendance high should really be the highest priority.

Oh, and to quote myself… “If my post came across with a negative tone I apologize.”  I’m just stating my view and asking for clarification, nothing more.  So to say it bluntly, if you want to vent or flame someone, take your issues elsewhere.

Jody,

The last post you made with the paragraph about the man that goes out and gets outside money hits the nail on the head.  In KC, I am that one and only person that does that and if we wanted to, we could wipe our $30 athletic fee completely out.  Instead we have lots of extras, anyone who comes will tell you that; last year and this year we had and will have pros too.  When Kevin started throwing 13 years ago, there were no cheaper ways to buy a kilt and most games charged $20 and you were lucky if you got a shirt, let alone any lunch.

But that is the key to it all, sponsorship/outside funding.  It requires that special talent of a full year committment, saying just the right thing and swooning all your would-be customers into believing you will give back to them all the publicity it takes to get their money.  The larger your event, the more spectators; the more spectators, the bigger return on their dollar.  It is a lot harder for smaller games or athletic only games to get the outside funding they need as there is no or little attraction for the sponsoring businesses.  Sometimes you will find businesses or individuals that will sponsor anyway but most want to know your gate count.

Where everyone needs to get involved that reads this is the sponsorship side of things.  When I quit, which will be very soon, there will be no one to take over here.  There was no one before me and no one speaks up to help now.  Gathering money is extremely time consuming and takes coordination with many many other individuals.  I am also a board member of the KCSHG (501c3 also, like Ed) and it is against our by-laws to receive money; Kevin and I are not even allowed to charge if we judge or keep score.

Two professionals that come to mind right now that fully understand this concept are Ryan Vierra and Larry Brock.  They know that without their involvement they will lose games to go throw at, hence their income.  I have learned a lot from talking with Ryan in particular; he has some wonderful ideas about growing a game and getting outside help from agencies, many I am using now at KC.

You started a good topic and one that more athletes should think about; getting involved in their local festivals and games and see that there is much more to it then it appears.

Lori Henderson

Sponsorship/Membership Chair-KCSHG and Celtic Festival

I don't think anyone in their right mind means to say that AD's shouldn't be paid for their time or that they don't work hard.  Without them there are no games.  I think they should receive some compensation for their effort and dedication. 

On the flip side, it sucks to work your ass off, show up to entertain and pay a gate fee.  It just does!  I truly beleive that most AD's would remove the fee if it were economically possible, but it isn't.  There are games out there that charge every single person on the grounds, believe it or not.  Look at the list of games that have tanked.  I'm just glad we still have places left to throw!!! 

I agree with many of you, and especially HB on the issue of looking at the games that have tanked. How is it that we have tons of new people getting into the games, and games are going out of business? Thus making it harder for ams and pros to get into games. IMO, there are not enough games. When I was an am I paid gladly when they charged us to play. I mean seriously, its 8 hours of fun, free lunch in many cases, an event to take your family to, what you love to do, and train for! Is that a deal for 25 bucks? Heck yeah. What else are you going to do that is that much fun and costs less? Well, maybe don't answer that . If games keep going down, I think we will start to see more and more backyard games, which give throwers the chance to throw, which for me is a big part of it. It sucks when throwing and competing is in your blood, and you can't find a game.

Thoughts?

Thank you very much for your input Lori, that made a great deal of sense.  The year 'round commitment is one thing that really stuck out in my mind.  Going back to Jeremy and his games and getting sponsors and outside funding, I do know he starts his planning and other work (which just like HB3 said, is a LOT of work) for his games before they last one is over. 

I guess what it really comes down to is the type and magnitude of the games the AD or festival board is shooting for.  Like Wayne stated there are a few models, and if you are going to put on a gala event you really need to have the funding in order.  Again, this is ONLY speaking from a throwers point of view and ONLY speaking for myself, but having the throwers foot the bill is simply an odd way to go about it. 

Another question I guess I'd like to put to the people with the AD or games board insider knowledge is, from your point of view do you believe scaling back the "perks" and reducing or eliminating the cost on throwers to be detrimental to turnout and to the games/festival overall?  Again, I can only speak for myself and I may be in the minority here, but I'm not sure that is the case.

Jody,

It would be easier to understand if you had a balance sheet in front of you.  It is amazing, AMAZING how costs add up.  I was in the ituation where we had a SPONSER and they were fairly generous.  We had NO frills, no extras and only broke even.  No joke.  We sat there looking at the spreadsheet and it was EASY to see where the money went.  Also, though depressing (we wanted a little windfall for future events), it was easily explainable to sponsors and community leaders. 

Where can you spend a whole Saturday doing something you enjoy for 30 bucks?  Golf?  Softball?  Basketball or soccer or flag football leagues?  These are all as, if not more, expensive than the games.  Sheesh, a movie, popcorn and treats for 2 is starting to approach that.

If one is good enough to be a pro, doors open.  Just like for any Pro athlete  in other sports you aren't paying to compete.  But us Am's, in any sport, need to decide how to prioritize.  And budget.

If non-ADs have workable sponsorship ideas, please share.  This stuff is tricky to fund.

Josh

Jody,

From my own perspective I would not like to see our perks scaled back.  All the stuff we give the athletes is what makes many of them keeping coming back.  When we took over in 2005 there was 35-45 athletes a year for several years before; we have never had less then 65 and one year had 79.   It all works in a huge circle for gathering sponsorship.  More athletes on the field, more spectators, more publicity for sponsors.  Athletics are the easiest 'sell job' I do to gather money; entertainment is next.  This year we even added the term 'Celtic Festival' to our name to attract Irish and others.  This economy we are in is very shaky but not the time to cut back.  It is the time to get creative, think of other ways to get the job done.  How can an AD feed his crew without spending any money, what other things can we use for awards, how can we attract new volunteers.  I could probably write a book!  I am exactly like Jeremy, I start the next year before the current game is even over.  Smoozing businesses is non stop.

The real answer to your money concerns that if you stop and figure just exactly what it takes to just run an athletic comp without any frills at all and be a legitimate game you will easily reach that magic $20-$30 range.  Like Kevin Rogers said there is field rental to pay and Steve Conway has mentioned reimbursing judges.  Maybe they will work for free, maybe they won't.  Just a tshirt is going to be in the $7 range when you have to order small quantities.  When you start taking away the little stuff to save expenses you start losing participants.  When there are no volunteers within your Game organization willing to take on the committment of gathering outside funds, then as an AD you are stuck with passing along the expenses to the athlete. 

I have watched many many games go down the toilet over several years now, many right in my own region.  If you chose to attend a game that is a 'gala event' then you get what you have to pay for, so to speak.  Here in the midwest with so many major games disappearing I personally would rather roll out the carpet and get lots of throwers, knowing that they are having to make lots of choices of how to spend their vacation money and time.

Hope I have been helpful and maybe got some folks nodding their heads and wanting to get out and help their local festivals not be added to the list of Games lost.

Lori

I recall when I first started my games.  The entry fee of, I think, $20 was a significant portion of my budget.  My goal then was to keep getting more sponsorship to eventually make it free to the athletes.  Then, talking with other AD's such as Dan DeWelt, Steve Scott, Al Myers, Greg Bradshaw, guys who had run literally dozens of big time games the message was basically the same:  The entry is earnest money towards showing up. 

Over the years, I've come to the realization that you really can't please everyone so make sure you please yourself or you will soon hate what you are doing and won't do it anymore.  I charge an entry for my games, and it does play a direct roll in what extra perks the athletes get and I always spend more than I take in when you factor in all costs which DOES NOT include the hundreds of hours I've spent on these things.  So, you'll have to pardon me when I get a little chaffed when an athlete doesn't want to cough up $20 or $30 bucks for an entry fee.  If that's what it's all about, then go pro or find something else to do.  I do this because I love it and the day I stop loving it I'll quit and do something else.  If a wealthy donor tossed a sack of cash my way, my life as an AD would be easier, but not any more or less satisfying than it is now. That's NOT why I do this. As an AD, my favorite thing is to see an athlete smile because they got a PR or won an event, or won a B class for the first time ever or they go and show their 5 year old son the cool sword they just won and the kid looks at their Dad like he's the baddest ass on the planet.  That ought to be worth a few extra bucks to somebody.  That's why I do it.  This is not intended to slam anyone who has expressed an different opinion, just a chance to express mine.  Thanks, Thom

Well, that and going to Pancake City at the end of the day and eating 8000 calories in fried eggs, bacon, sausage, bisquits and gravy, pancakes, tenderloins, hashbrowns, more pancakes, coffee, ham (slabs, not slices), texas toast.....

I agree Bert.  Hell Ive paid entry fees as an am and a pro,  I know ohio and wisconsin charges

JWC III wrote: I recall when I first started my games.  The entry fee of, I think, $20 was a significant portion of my budget.  My goal then was to keep getting more sponsorship to eventually make it free to the athletes.  Then, talking with other AD's such as Dan DeWelt, Steve Scott, Al Myers, Greg Bradshaw, guys who had run literally dozens of big time games the message was basically the same:  The entry is earnest money towards showing up.  Over the years, I've come to the realization that you really can't please everyone so make sure you please yourself or you will soon hate what you are doing and won't do it anymore.  I charge an entry for my games, and it does play a direct roll in what extra perks the athletes get and I always spend more than I take in when you factor in all costs which DOES NOT include the hundreds of hours I've spent on these things.  So, you'll have to pardon me when I get a little chaffed when an athlete doesn't want to cough up $20 or $30 bucks for an entry fee.  If that's what it's all about, then go pro or find something else to do.  I do this because I love it and the day I stop loving it I'll quit and do something else.  If a wealthy donor tossed a sack of cash my way, my life as an AD would be easier, but not any more or less satisfying than it is now. That's NOT why I do this. As an AD, my favorite thing is to see an athlete smile because they got a PR or won an event, or won a B class for the first time ever or they go and show their 5 year old son the cool sword they just won and the kid looks at their Dad like he's the baddest ass on the planet.  That ought to be worth a few extra bucks to somebody.  That's why I do it.  This is not intended to slam anyone who has expressed an different opinion, just a chance to express mine.  Thanks, Thom Well, that and going to Pancake City at the end of the day and eating 8000 calories in fried eggs, bacon, sausage, bisquits and gravy, pancakes, tenderloins, hashbrowns, more pancakes, coffee, ham (slabs, not slices), texas toast.....

Damn it JWC now I am starving!  I am trying to get under 200 for that masters division and posts like yours aren't helping!!!

Oh, and Brian, did I mention that at Pancake City the Tenderloins are so big that you can fold it in half and it's still twice as big as the bun....then I order a side of gravy to dip my sandwich in and to pour over the hashbrowns, maybe some salsa, too and.....HAHAHAHA sorry, buddy.  

I seem to recall this guy in KC one time that was pretty dang happy about a comeback win in the lightweight nationals. 

Damn you Thom..... 

You coming down for iron thistle? I am doing that, Scarby and Warrensburg to start off my return tour.

Yeah that title in 01 is still fresh on my mind. I really enjoyed that day.

Steve, there are no sports worth a damn that don't charge   Hell you can't even go to a martial arts tourney without dropping 25.00 minimum. then if you add on other divisions like open forms, weapons etc you can look at 50-60.00 easy.

I am with you, pay and play or don't. It is that simple.

BILL....+1

DAMN STRAIGHT!!

I wonder if part of it is perspective. I don't consider myself to be part of the entertainment, or the show, though that is certainly the case, and I do whatever I can to keep the crowd into things.

I show up to compete, not entertain. If I want to do weightlifting or powerlifting, there are fees up the yin-yang. Again, there, I'm not entertaining, I'm competing. I train hard(ish) so I can compete and throw well... the crowd may be pleased if I clear 13 feet in the WOB, but I won't be.

I'm certainly not saying one perspective is right or wrong, and for sure it is different for a Pro (I expect).

Just some rambling thoughts.

Also, I have NEVER gotten money for ADing, in 13 years. As far as the kilt goes- no kilt, no throwing. Period.

Our association did take the step of buying 4 Sportkilts when we had the money, to use as lenders for new folks... cause really, it's not like they're beating the door down to get onto the field and we would like them to stick around.

Jeff, that's a good point.  The first games I ever competed in was in Colorado and the Kilt was mandatory, but they had rentals for $5.00 (that was a few years ago....well....maybe a lot of years ago).  I had not thought about getting a few to rent out to the new guys.  I have also had guys that shared a kilt, they would take turns wearing it when they would throw. 

Claymore +1 on his +1

Brian, I am seriously thinking about the Iron Thistle.  Don't worry, I'll leave my brother at home. 

A lot of great input from some top notch throwers and organizers!  I have to agree, that if we suddenly had a rich benefactor with nothing to do with his/her money, I would LOVE to have our athletes throw for free.  However, that is not reality.  We usually come out a little behind because we want to take care of the athletes, but have broken even a couple of times!  I don’t believe in cutting back on perks, because that is what people keep coming back for. I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.  Really, outside of the all “other” stuff we pay for.  For $30, where are you going to get at least two full hot meals (not leftovers from the volunteers) water and Gatorade all day with snacks, a t-shirt, an award, plus a few beers after the game for that amount of money?  Again, that’s not including all of our venue and equipment charges.  I have participated in games that were “free” and offered no perks.  I can tell you that between my hubby & I we spent well over $60 in drinks and food to last the day.

As for charging to hold spots, that depends on the needs of the games.  For Shamrocks, we have to do that now.  We allow about 60 athletes in, and the list has filled up in a matter of hours before.  It was about a day and a half this year, and we have a waiting list.  Last year, we had a waiting list of 8 athletes that could not get in.  We had 7 athletes NOT show up that day.  For those of you that have been to Shammies, this is an indoor venue and you know that the numbers are a severe safety issue.  However, we would have been able to call up the waiting list and let them in.  It was not fair to those who could not get in.  Not because we wanted their money, but because this is the first chance of the year for many to throw.

None of our AD’s make any money.  Their travel is covered if they are attending one of our events that it is required.  Our judges are volunteers, unless the festival agrees to pay them.  Then it comes out of their budget, not ours.  For those that have the money to allow people to throw for free, great.  I hope that one day we can do that as well.  Right now, we always get “I would love to help out”.  However, when it comes time for them to provide something, all we get is excuses.  If we had someone full time to work on this, we would be a lot better off.  Until then, we will just provide the best games that we can and hope that the athletes feel it is worth it.  I thank you all for your continued support despite the tough times!

I didn't have time to read all the responses just hit the ones from people I know so I apologize if my question has been answered.  I would gladly pay to play and realize other sports pay a lot more.  When I wasn't so round I even did some 24 hour MTB races and Adventure Races those fees were in the $200 range. 

My question is will us paying fees really make a real dent on the finances of games?  I don't know the totals etc.  but it seems to me like it probably wouldn't.  Still,  Wayne, Hapy, Dan, Kate, I'll gladly buck up to throw. 

JWC III wrote: Jeff, that's a good point.  The first games I ever competed in was in Colorado and the Kilt was mandatory, but they had rentals for $5.00 (that was a few years ago....well....maybe a lot of years ago).  I had not thought about getting a few to rent out to the new guys.  I have also had guys that shared a kilt, they would take turns wearing it when they would throw.  Claymore +1 on his +1 Brian, I am seriously thinking about the Iron Thistle.  Don't worry, I'll leave my brother at home.

LOL   Well since we are both masters we will get to finally throw together again!

    This is only my second year throwing and the most I have had to pay here Florida is 10$ (usually to cover the t-shirts) But I would pay more if I had to.I also know that sumission grappling tournaments can cost as much as 100$ and half the feild is out in the first round. So 25-30$ to compete all day and hang out with good peaple doesn't sound to bad to me.

WALLY.OLECIK wrote: My math doesn't add up?  Maybe l slept thru that part in school.  l divided the Claw's expenses for the heavy events by the the income received from the entry fees and got .0548+.  Tells me that the Claw is giving back to the athletes over 18 times more than it takes in from them!!!!  Some might call that "a good deal!"

Ahhhhmmm Wally, wouldn't that be:

divide the income received from the entry fees  by Claw's expenses for the heavy events

OR

the Claw's expenses for the heavy events are divided by the income received from the entry fees

Sorry I could not help myself

Rather than claiming you are the show Silverback - consider using the phrase that I use over here in Inverness.

"The heavies are the stars of the show".

Anyone who wishes to offer a Highland Games that consists of just Heavy events has my blessing to go ahead and try it.

The reason I say that is because I think that it is really important that everybody involved with throwing at Highland Games faces up to a very simple fact.

A basic Highland Games consists of Highland Music, Highland Dance and Heavy Events.  It is like a 3 legged stool. Remove one leg and it will fall over. Do not try to talk yourself into thinking that Highland Games are a one legged stool. It is not true and never was.

I used the term "basic Highland Games" above for a reason.

Ensuring that we have Highland Music, Highland Dance and Heavy Events in our programmes are only the beginning for us organisers.

Now I will not list the staff or infrastructure requirements of the 2009 Inverness Highland Games because I would like everybody reading this post to focus on the most important people at our Games.

The people who really pay for Highland Games all over the world.

Our spectators.

If we can all agree that no spectators usually equals No Highland Games then I think it is vital that we consider our spectators for a moment and ask ourselves the most important question of all.

What do our customers want?

With the Super Bowl almost upon us - think for a moment about the last time you went to an NFL or College game.

How would you feel if all you experienced was the game?

Cheated?

Disappointed?

Today's customers at Highland Games expect more than Heavies throwing when they go to a Highland Games.

They expect multiple experiences.

Experiences that have appeal to all ages groups.

Experiences that appeal to men and women.

We have to give them choice.

You are dealing with a highly sophisticated audience with a low threshold of boredom.

The younger the audience - the lower the threshold of boredom.

You are dealing with the MTV generation.

You are dealing with the channel hoppers.

They have all been to events before.

They expect certain things to be provided by you.

They expect you to meet "their" expectations regarding what they will find when they join you.

They expect you to attempt to exceed "their" expectations.

They expect value for money.  

There is another reason why you need to focus on ensuring that you customers go home happy.

Thanks to the internet and:-

Social networking sites like Facebook and Bebo

Information Sharing Websites like Trip Adviser, You Tube and of course websites like this and countless blogs

Customers today have the power to communicate on a scale like never before. In the old days you might have bitched to someone in the bar that something was crap. Those days have gone.

If people have a good or a bad time - they cannot wait to rush home and log on to Facebook and tell people about it.

You get the idea.

I guess what i am saying is that the customer is king and that everyone connected with Highland Games who does not think that is true is fooling themselves.

The stars of the show may be the heavies but many a Broadway Show has closed down overnight because it did not give the audience what it wanted.

And if you are wondering if I personally regard my Heavies are customers or performers - one final point.

On any given weekend - every single Heavy in Scotland has somewhere else they can be and somewhere else their wives and girlfriends would prefer them to be.

brandell wrote: And Santa has spoken!

NOT YET

To answer the question of why Athletic Registrations are necessary to many games, I need to frame the question in a much broader context.  My comments mirror some of those made by Mr. Reynolds and others ... some very if not excellent posts.  I will try to present a different angle and limit repetition as much as possible.  However, if you want to cut to the meat of my post, look for the blue text.

The Niche Market called Highland Games

Athletics is only one part of an entertainment package that is bundled together and sold to the public.  I have often used the (before mentioned) three-legged stool analogy to describe the games but my three legs are athletics, piping, and dance. 

Why these three?  Without them, Highland Games Festival is nothing but a run-of-the-mill beer drinking street festivals or county fair.  It is what makes the Games different from every other festival and a NICHE we should jealously protect and exploit.  Thus, I feel that dancing, piping, and athletics need to be present in some form (ranging from demos to full competition) to enhance the games chances of success as they are the NICHIE and are the goose of the meal.

Despite being a niche event, Highland Games Festivals needs to provide sauce for the goose to get families to layout $10 a head or $XX for a family pass.   The sauce would be musical entertainment (some believe this is a fourth leg of the mythical three-legged stool) along with vending, ethnic food, family activities, beer tent, ....

(Side Note:  I believe one of the reasons why the games are stronger than our our struggling county and state fairs is that the Games are different and novel )

The Nature of Competition when putting on Highland Games

The games competes on many different levels. 

Local Competition: There is extreme competition for the family entertainment dollar.  Movies, car and bike shows and races, local sporting events, casinos, other festivals, church picnics, …

To increase the games chances to be successful in the local market, the games should provide a complete entertainment package. Complete as in something for every member of the family and I think the games is tailor made to do this. (well okay maybe not teenagers but some of them get into the Nerf knight thing) 

The other area of local competition is competition for volunteers.  What does the games have to give up to get people to show up to volunteer???

Regional Competition:  The games competes for Celtic vendors and musical acts, clan representatives, sheep herding, dog agility, falconry, animals, ...., on a regional basis.  

These are essential in providing the complete package that allows the games to compete in the local market for the family entertainment dollar.  Thus, regional competition does impact the games bottom line. 

{PS - this is why I consistently and obnoxiously bitch about festivals that compete w/ Highland Games such as renaissance fairs and now that new combination Strongmen/Heavy Athletics events (despite what that new organization has stated, I have already noticed a conflict between two relatively close events .... ohhh never mind, that is a different bitch ..... )}

Contestant Competition:  Each competition or leg of the stool competes for contestants on a regional basis – they all have to balance registration fee versus rewards, bling, facilities provided, and crowd appreciation of their art form to draw in top competitors who will put on a kick ass show. 

WHY REGISTRATION FEEs ARE NEEDED
I am afraid that the registration fees are essential for medium size and smaller games. 

The reason why is that for every dollar of revenue the Athletic Area can generate to offset its costs allows the games to put a dollar to use in other areas.  Bringing in sheep herding, falconry, agility trials, ...., in other words the SAUCE for the goose that completes the entertainment package.

Thus, athletic registration indirectly supports the efforts of providing a full and complete FAMILY entertainment package to the public, which is so essential in the local family entertainment market and so essential to the games success. 

DEATH SPIRALS:
Without the registration fees, the games would have to pull back on the sauce --- which in turn will make it harder to draw people back year in and year out, which may lead to a death spiral. 

If the games starts cutting back because money is tight, less people will show the next year (as they feel cheated or a disappointed with the value bought) which will make money event tighter, which means the games has to pull back even more, and less people will show the following year, ......

Death spirals are hard to pull out

As an AD, I find that I am a slave to two conflicting but complementary causes

1. My responsibility to provide a vibrant and large piece to this entertainment package and to do it as reasonably as possible so that the games can be competitive in the local festival market.
   
2. Provide enough bling or a "benefits package" for the registration fee to draw entertaining competitors who will allow me to accomplish (1) -- (added 1/31: As throwers, we look for value for our money the same as the festival goers.)

IN OTHER WORDS PUTTING ON A GAMES IS A LABOR OF LOVE AND AT TIMES I PAIN IN THE ASS  and every dollar the games gets they put to use ... The goal is to cover the festivals cost and generate seed money for the following year’s festival.  When lucky, the games covers the festival costs, if really lucky, the games clear seed money.  Otherwise, the committee people have to spend even more of their time doing fund raising, which is a talent that not many have. 

The challenge to the athletes who want games to survive is provide manpower to help games setup and take down (not just the athletics area) and GET involved so that your registration fee is used to subsidize areas you feel are important (NOT PIPING!)

Brain is this the long winded bloated, preaching post you were looking for!  The good thing is most people won't read it because it is too damn long and too damn preachy!

+1 McSanta

You tell it how it is and sometimes it is good being preachy.

In the past decade at Inverness we have thrown a lot into the mix including:-

A 2nd Day of Competition

Clan Gathering

Fun Fair

Traditional Music Tent

Youth Music Tent

Proclaimers Concert (2007)

Armed Forces Area

American Football

Aerobatics

March of the Highlanders Charity March

Children's Shinty Final

Inter Clan Gathering

Antiques Fair

Model Car Exhibition

Military Fly Past

Archery Exhibition

Chain Saw Carving Exhibition

Dog Obedience Show

Mass Highland Fling

Oh and the Masters and World Championships

McSanta wrote: WALLY.OLECIK wrote: l divided the Claw's expenses for the heavy events by the the income received from the entry fees and got .0548+. Ahhhhmmm Wally, wouldn't that be: divide the income received from the entry fees  by Claw's expenses for the heavy events... Sorry I could not help myself

Oops!  l made a boo-boo!  Not bad for guy that is legally blind and flunked recess in grade school!  l did the math right and wrote it down backwards.  My bad!!  Bottom line, entry fees at the Claw pay for a very, very small portion of the cost to put on the event!

Wally,

I had to make this post because your registration income to athletic cost ratio of 5.48% is

FRICKING AMAZING!

In the Midwest, many games have 50 to 60 throwers.  Using a registration fee of $25 and 56 throwers (same # of throwers at claw last year), the registration income would be $1,400.

If a games could run things as cheaply as Wally, the budget would be 1400/.0548 = $25,547 .... I can dream....

Or another way of looking at it ... assume a budget of $5,000 (yields a nice round number), the registration revenue to cost ratio would be 28%  

Finally, if the games with a $5000 budget and 56 throwers had Wally's ratio, the registration fee per thrower would be $4.90

Amazing ... just unbelievably amazing

I thought it might be fun to go to the Masters Indoor Track and Field Championships and toss the shot, since they are in my back yard this year.  Entry fee: $45.  T-shirt (optional): $15.  Friend of the National Masters Championships Contribution (optional): $10.  Total: $70 to go throw the shot and hang out.  Plus, you have to be a registered USATF member which costs $30-$100 depending on whether you join for 1, 2, 3 or 4 years.

When I throw at local track meets, (once or twice a year) it costs about $8 (extra per additional event) and you have to be a member of the track club.  (I forget how much that is, maybe $20-30).  For that you get no water, no lunch, no spectators to speak of, a cranky judge, (OK, that's the same )  no t-shirt, no pipes, no shade, no comaraderie (unless you bring your own) and you're done in a couple hours.  (Mercifully.) 

I do it because I like to see how my stone throwing translates into shot throwing, and to see how my discus has come along since high school graduation 38 years ago.  (A 1.5k disc goes about as far as a 1.6k used to.)  It gives me a huge appreciation for how great our sport is.  Paying a $10-$25 entry fee a few times a year (most MASA games I throw at are free to the athletes) is a deal. 

McSanta wrote: Wally,I had to make this post because your registration income to athletic cost ratio of 5.48% is... Amazing ... just unbelievably amazing.

lf anyone is interested, my '09 budget for the Claw was just approved and if we get a full contingent of throwers, that ratio will be 4.8% this year!  l totally recommend that ADs help their event to grow by just asking for a few more bucks each year.  All that your Games can do to you is to say "no!"