any thoughts on losing weight and still training, I know that Kearney has done this and I was wondering if anyone else has tried this approach. I want to lose about 20#'s I am currently at 283 pounds and I would like to get into the mid 260 range in about a month...then I will begin to regroup for 2009.  I am doing this for a few reasons.

1) I want to extend my career and I also want to avoid the continous build build build of body mass which along with Muscle I will still add fat. 

2) I dont want to get so big that when I am in my mid to late 30's it will be that much harder to get off .

3) I still think I can take a month off to get my body healed up after 35 or so games and all the travel and bad food, I want to try and lose some weight and compete with the scale until thanksgiving. 

Has anyone ever tried this? 

thanks so much I will use that

I was thinking chocolate chip

Notice how all the guys are talking about going back to the basics or back to what they did when they were younger? We all sprinted ,stretched , did cardio , lots of volume work and played sports OTHER than our main one. That's what made us - sometimes, that's how we REMAKE us. Rest up, lean down w. diet and cardio and go play some games that make you breath hard - be a youngster again. I played racquetball last week for the first time since I joined this sport and can't wait to do it again. Let's all get off the doubles for a bit and follow a long term track guy progression and get athletic and in shape first....and I bet we'll all throw better next year.

M-BAAB wrote: Let's all get off the doubles for a bit

blasphemy.

I am going down the same track.  A pretty good resource, if you are not big into running and such, is the Concept 2 web page.  If you go there you can start a log book and all your entries go into completing the current challenges.  For example right now they are doing the "Skelton Crew Challenge" Row 31,000 meters between Oct 25 and 31.  If you do you can print off a certificate and a t-shirt iron on transfer.  I know it is pretty lame but it is free and gives you a goal.  The best thing is that the rowers are always open at most gyms you walk into.  Great exercise, full body movement, pulling and knee/hip extension based, and little impact on the joints; what's not to like?!?

Check it out http://www.concept2.com - www.concept2.com  

With respect to the rowing, I would say it hands down the best gym-based aerobic exercise there is (with swimming, cross-country skiing, and real rowing also being excellent choices outside the gym).  I was very heavy into "erg" training on and off for years right up until I got back into lifting and throwing.  My brother is one of the top Masters' in Canada.

While nothing we do at THIS time of year is really going to negatively affect our throwing next summer, as the off-season progresses you really want to be careful how much of this kind of thing you do at anything other than low intensity.  The reason for this is it is training your muscles in the exact opposite way that you want to be if your over-riding goal is to throw far.  However, if your goals include losing some weight or getting in "better shape", the Concept 2 erg (for "ergometer") is the way to go.  The only other caveat is that there is definitely some technique involved in rowing properly, which is essential both to avoid injury and to get the most out of the exercise.  What some people do on the rowing machine is downright scary and could easily lead to injury.  Learn how to do it correctly!

I'm a big fan of kettlebells...went from 290 down to 250 in a little more than 6 months...did not lose much strength either...still pulling low-6's...the KB's are great for maintaining the core strength for throwing, great for keeping the hip structure mobile, and it'll work up a sweat. Lots of great routines out there...check out the Art of Strength website. http://www.artofstrength.com - http://www.artofstrength.com Try doing KB snatches for 5 minutes straight and I promise you, you'll be sucking wind!

Erik

Did this last year and I felt alot better at 240-250 than 270 where I finshed up the year. Going for 230 this year and plan on trying to keep it off this year.

I hate to say it the extra lbs makes the weights go father, how can you compensate the lower weight and keep the 56 from jerking you out of the trig?

Peter Ingleton wrote: With respect to the rowing, I would say it hands down the best gym-based aerobic exercise there is (with swimming, cross-country skiing, and real rowing also being excellent choices outside the gym).

I can agree with that. I come from the rowing world and its great all around. I travel with a team that competes all summer in different cities. The only thing is that we dont row skulls or sweeps, we row traditional Irish fishing boats called currachs. It makes me feels a bit more manlier to be rowing a 200lb oak boat with 2X4's rather than a 20lb boat with sleek oars. Heres a video of us in Columbus, Im in the white T shirt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl1wwEqjlVo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl1wwEqjlVo

i kinda equate it to doing 60lb stiffy deadlifts for 15 minutes straight.

i'm a bloody pig right now and i feel like all the crap that i eat and drink! so i am joining in and going to shed some LBS. and come in next season looking svelte and handsome as ever!

 okay,okay, looking better

http://www.crossfit.com - www.crossfit.com

or you can take a look at some of my strength biased metcon workouts at http://www.indycrossfit.com - www.indycrossfit.com . 

Its good for you and makes you feel "athletic"

I dropped 10 since the end of my season by doing a high intensity preparation phase in my training schedule. I did a lot of high rep tempo work (4010 for example) and tripling the amount of HI cardio (stadium stair sprints have been a favorite of mine). The nice thing about HIT is that I've lost no strength, but significantly decreased my bodyweight. In fact, I think this is the strongest I've ever been at this point in my offseason training schedule.

Here's a sample from my preparation phase (I've since moved onto my next training phase)

DB Peterson Step-Ups 3x12 (2010)

Supersetted with lying hammy curls 3x8 (3020)

DB Split Squat 3x12 (2020) - an absolute killer

Supersetted with explosive good mornings

Burpee Hip Snatch

Supersetted with moderate core work

I'd then do stadium stair sprints - I worked up to 12 sets

I did that from late September until late last week. It was a BIG change of pace from my usual training but I feel very good now.

Just FYI.  This was taken from a Q&A session by Charles Poliquin:

My goal is to drop 20 pounds of body fat and then add as much quality muscle as possible before jan. I started the better eating habits mon and am starting a new hypertrophy phase for 4 weeks.  I am only doing cardio at the beginning of my workout and it consists of jump rope and a javoreck complex of some sort  .  Hadley has a good metabolic curcuit  going there. the burpee hip snatch is a mofo.  After the first 4 weeks i am going to start lowering my rep range for  a lil more strength but keeping my rest intervals short.  good luck to everyone .

I am in the same boat as everyone here.  I was at 290 1.5 weeks ago and now down to 287 or so.  I want to get down to around 275-277 by Christmas and then add more muscle gradually.  Don't try to lose or gain weight too fast.  Make it a steady 1-2 pounds a week.  Here's the type of nutrition I'm doing.  John Berardi is the guy who popularized this. On workout day you should surround your workout with a pre-workout pro-carb meal, and post workout shake with a pro-carb meal a couple hours later.  I am eating around 3600-3800 calories a day on non-workout days and 4000 on workout days.  No cardio, just clean eating and 4 days a week of weight training.  Remember that cardio is mainly just burning calories.  Weight training can offer heart benefits just like cardio.  Greg's routine is a good example.  When I'm done competing, I'll try to look like Jim McGoldrick. 

Breakfast= protein+carb

am snack= protein+carb

lunch= protein+carb

pm snack=protein+fat

supper=protein+fat

late snach= protein+fat

See how Sean eliminates the carbs later in the day? All the stuff I've read says that is a key - it's all about hormone stimulation - natural HGH production occurs somewhere from midnight to 2 or 3am - so get to bed and asleep by 11am if at all possible . I suggest melatonin before bed to sleep deeper.And don't watch stressful things on TV/play violent computer games before bed - you'll get an adrenalin response that will keep you from deep, restful sleep and your HGH squirt(and no caffiene late ) ............................stadium/uphill  sprints/stationary bike sprints/ real bike sprints (blast it , cruise till ready to blast again ) and bar/dbell/medball complexes stimulate HGH - short all -out bursts for a minute max spaced b/n a "moving rest" - walk across the gym and get a drink of water , look at the aerobic girls and stroll back and hit it again, repeat maybe 10 x's. If you can't stand regular cardio ,this is gonna lean you out like cardio and keep you strong and moving fast.

We all sound like a bunch of body builders, all you need is a razor and tan and some posin oil. 

Sean is absolutly right, the late high pro and good fats help keep the muscles burning cals during the REM cycle of sleep and keep the HGH in full burn. Gotta keep the furnace burning hot to shed the lbs and keep the muscle.

"Confessions of a Fat Man".  Yes, I too am packing the lbs.  All these are great ideas.  I like the kettlebell, walking, sprinting, less carbs approach.  We should keep each other informed about our progress for the next couple of months.

Back in the day, a conditioning phase was part of regular training cycles. I think many of us got away from that.  Old ideas always come back.

What is a Burpee Hip Snatch?  I know what a burpee is and what a hip snatch is, but I cannot picture what a combination of these movements looks like.

Just got cleared by the Physical Thearpist to do a little light lifting...whatever in the hell that is!!!!

So here was my workout today...no warm up was needed after 2 hours of PT.  hang clean high pull (to chin) + hang clean(above knee)+ front squat into shoulder press + hang clean(below knee)+RDL   Each exercise was done for 8 reps and were done right after each other....waited 2 minutes and did 4 more sets!!!!!!

Then I laid on the platform and tried to catch my breath and not look like I was about to die....still got athletes to train!!!!

+1 on what Baab said.  Take it slow. I was forced to drop weight and improve my cardio for my current job.  I was only 225-230 to start though.  I had a lot of hip and knee pain early on because I dieted too hard and pushed the running too much too soon. My body eventually adjusted without any time off, but why risk injury.  It is amazing how fast you can recover from lifting when you get your cardio up though.  I am lifting for the first time in over a year now and I don't even get sore from heavy squats or deads.

>my jock tastes like vanilla ice cream.
That's awesome.

What I'm learning is that you need a lot less than you think. Lyttle suggested I do the hunt before you eat caveman thing and I think it works great.

So on Tue and Thu pre-breakfast before these last games I was doing 60 10 yds at 80%, then 5 at 100%. I've actually added quad mass to my legs doing this better than I ever got just back squatting. I also included pulling the local jr high's 6 guy tackle using a safety harness and tow rope. Real gasser. Feet really started hurting from sprinting on the driveway, so I moved to a mix of the back yard and a local volleyball pit, and my feet feel a lot better. 

Now, jumping on the tailgate from flat feet is so much easier now. No doubt my throwing is still getting used to the lost weight, but if I can now generate more force with less weight (use tailgate test), then I'm ahead of the game. The best way to test this is with a Tendo unit (available from Sorinex of course), and I bet anybody can drop weight and get higher force numbers. Less weight just feels so much better, and I've found I can't even force myself to hog out when we're feasting after the game. It's just a better lifestyle for me.

Kearney - ain't it cool? Played 5 games of racquetball last night and plan on some hypertrophy type lifting Friday morning and some basketball on Sunday. You are dead on in how mature athletes keep the edge - we have to go back to the womb and do what we did as youngsters - ie: run,jump,play   and twice a week or so do Craig's heavy ass doubles to stay strong. I really like what you're doing -couple things to think about - #1= find an athletic sport you can still play w.out getting hurt and go have some fun #2= push things too - cars,sleds(I use an old broken heavy mower- my kid HATES it)

You guys can give me an extra 25#...  I'm on my way up, but doing it slowly, ALWAYS eating clean- Lean meats broiled, complex carbs- brown rice, steel cut oats, yucca(this is not so complex, but it is a good weight gainer), and of course tons of fresh steamed vegt., with every meal!!!  Lots of Olive oil, flax meal and I cook with coconut oil.  Simple whey protein and kre alklyn(creatine).  Now is a hypertrophy phase...

When I did cut weight, (50# in 5 weeks) all I did was walked and reduced calories and stayed strong...

Its a simple science, eat more calories then you burn= weight gain, eat less then burned= weight loss!

Good luck guys, heal up!

Gene

I just want to stay healthy.  Now I will on occasion go eat a nice big pizza, and after comps I usually eat out-big.  I forgot to mention i do eat thin sliced Cheddar cheese on my salads everyday.  I will say when i increase my saturated fat my joints feel better!

BTW- it was 50# in 5 MONTHS not 5 weeks-da!

Baab you'd love this pulling harness. It really is great fun.

>#1= find an athletic sport you can still play w.out getting hurt and go have some fun

You know what's funny is, I was out practicing one day, and I watched a game of men's community baseball going on. I was thinking to myself that any three of us would slaughter these guys, whether we ever played much baseball or not. I just couldn't believe how non-athletic they were. We take our higher level training for granted because we've been doing it for so long.

chirolifter wrote: BTW- it was 50# in 5 MONTHS not 5 weeks-da!

Mortals should be careful with Geno's advice. I've never seen anybody who can control his physique like Gene can. He can develop whatever body type he needs to adapt to for the sport he's competing in. The man's a freak!

K-Monster wrote: .   You know what's funny is, I was out practicing one day, and I watched a game of men's community baseball going on. I was thinking to myself that any three of us would slaughter these guys, whether we ever played much baseball or not. I just couldn't believe how non-athletic they were. We take our higher level training for granted because we've been doing it for so long.

Funny story for ya...A bunch of us old guys took on my boys little league team (9-10) We moved to a big field cause we'd blast the ball over their little fence. Moved the bases in for the little guys.  Then watched as the little dudes beat our tails.  They could run the ball down and get it in faster than us fat dudes could run.  My boy was hittin the ball about 250 foot and outfielders couldn't throw the ball in after about the 4th inning.  We were all gassed.  Then I had to spring for ice cream. 

K-man - got one - the only time I let my kid cuss in front of me is when we use it - huge work w. enormous returns . Everyone else - just use a weightbelt and a rope and a weight to drag. Drag some light and fast and drag some slower and heavier. Ease into it - start w. say 5 total for 20 yards w. a25lb plate. Focus on foward body lean , high knees and using arms . Do this once a week all off-season and you will be better. 

Absolutely Mike. Bent over gasping for air is a great feeling. Let's you know you're alive.

Good starting point you mention. Once you try to pull some unwieldy stuff, that's when the harness helps. And you don't have to get one of those $200 Ironmind harnesses. Just get a safety harness off of ebay for $30 and cut all the leg and breakaway straps off of it. Works great.

Short of it for me is:
1) Cardio before breakfast caveman style
2) If it's white, don't eat it. If it's not white, then it probably contains enough roughage to not be completely absorbed by your body, like that super nutty bread which is the only kind I eat now.
3) Just quit eating so much dammit! I'm telling you we simply eat too much in this country.
4) Manage expectations. Lyttle believes that losing 3-4 lbs then gaining one back on the weekend is ok and reinforces the lifestyle.

Can't scratch your neck.. now that's funny.  You know you are on your way when you can't make your hands touch behind your back...  is there anyone that can still do this? 

Mixed nuts(greater variety), cheeses (lo-fat is better of course), dark fishy fish(salmon,sardines,etc) , good ole peanut butter , eggs .....anyone else?

nesa wrote: Skyr!

Is that a war cry or a good fat? Never heard of that one.

M-BAAB wrote: Mixed nuts(greater variety), cheeses (lo-fat is better of course), dark fishy fish(salmon,sardines,etc) , good ole peanut butter , eggs .....anyone else?

Eggs, Skim milk, yogurts, not the frozen kind. You older folks over 50 need to watch the nuts, diverticulitis almost killed and old coach of mine.  Some meal replacement shakes have some great alternatives as well. High protein low carb shakes, watch the ones with high cholesterol. Natures best makes a zero carb version that's pretty good and EAS light used to be a good one.

Thanks for the list. I get it for the pm snack and the late night snack, but for supper...do you eat a steak and cheese or hamburger and peanut butter? Is that all of it?

Peter Ingleton wrote: What is a Burpee Hip Snatch?  I know what a burpee is and what a hip snatch is, but I cannot picture what a combination of these movements looks like.

Peter, I worked in some snatch grip burpees into my latest training video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4wzMOq5lRY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4wzMOq5lRY

Greg,

Got it.  Arguably more of a Burpee Power Snatch, but whatever.  They look ... tiring.  Just out of interest, what is your regular Hip Snatch max?  Is that onto straight legs, a quarter squat, or into split?

How did you find the jump squats?  I know some people on the board are interested in them but are apprehensive about trying them.  Did you stick with the 135 for 4-5 reps?  Where in your workout did you do them?  Is this the first year you have included them in your program?  Any issues you encountered or words of advice to those who have not tried them? 

You are looking strong.  Keep up the good work.

Thanks, Peter. I am feeling very good for this time of year.

I did a 265 hip snatch last year, into a quarter-ish squat/side split. I attempted 275 last March but missed it. I am hoping to get it this year with some technique changes. Seeing Darius Slowik hip snatch 345 on youtube has been some major inspiration.

I have done jump squats pretty consistently for the last few offseasons with no problems. I generally keep them light, <185lbs, and stick to 4-6 reps. My sequencing of them depends on the time of year. Right now I include them after any/all compound leg movements as a constrast. I think they work well for me. I've also worked them into the very end of my sessions at various points in the offseason. I see a lot of correlation b/t being able to jump squat at the end of a tough workout and being able to toss the WOB or caber and the end of a long competition.

Greg Hadley wrote: Seeing Darius Slowik hip snatch 345 on youtube has been some major inspiration.

Darius has some very impressive power, no doubt about it.  I wonder how far he might have thrown the discus this year if he had not torn his pec last Spring (not to mention if he actually had a throwing coach)?  A very unfortunate thing to happen in an Olympic year.  A cautionary tale perhaps?  He is obviously strong on several of the "key" lifts, but also seems to focus a lot more on heavy supplemental movements than would be typical for a discus thrower.  However, his jumping results and overheads are excellent too, based on what he has listed on his website http://www.dario2004.com/ - http://www.dario2004.com/  (although several of these results are rather old, suggesting a greater focus on lifting recently).

I wonder what he could accomplish in the HG if he really concentrated on them for a year or two?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9TbvCb8I08 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9TbvCb8I08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJjAq5CBP0 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJjAq5CBP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnsGmABo73g - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnsGmABo73g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdADcMqAHk&feature=channel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DdADcMqAHk&feature=chann el

Based on the following video, even I can tell his snatching power is not the problem with respect to his caber tossing ability.  That and the fact that he already snatches more than almost (?) any other serious HG competitor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nVqbSGkPd0&feature=channel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nVqbSGkPd0&feature=chann el

Further to Dave's point, I suspect the same is true with respect to his discus throwing, as his lifting, heaving, and jumping results, combined with his size (6'5") are at a level that should allow him to throw much farther than he has be able to do on a consistent basis.