I've searched through the old threads, and I see the thoughts on the importance of lifting vs. throwing.

My question is "has anyone here ever trained by just practicing throwing with no weight training for a length of time (say 2months or more)"?

And would please share how it went and what the results were? 

Thanks

-Bob

Several people do zero weight training during the season.  Vierra being the prime example.

YMMV.

I Have over the the last 15 years lifted with bruce a few times so thats a urban myth 8 reps at 286lb power clean is no slouch !!

buckcali wrote: I think Mr. Smith is on his way to zero weight training also

lol! 

Zero weight training?  No.

Zero practice? Absolutely.

Twice a week is optimal weight training, im telling y'all.

Greg Hadley wrote: So you put over 55lbs on your Front Squat in a year in a half (with plans for much more), being semi-retired, with an injured hip, lifting twice a week? Do I have that right?

Yes sir.  You have it 100% correct.

Interesting

steve748 wrote:   I Have over the the last 15 years lifted with bruce a few times so thats a urban myth 8 reps at 286lb power clean is no slouch !!

mmmmk,  I did a 290 for 8 in my day.  I felt like a GOD when I was done (after the stars went away), but later realized the following:

Why the F did I pull on that weight so many damn times?

I guess it was cuz, I planned to do it for 4, but when I caught the 4th with NO drop, I decided to go for as many as possible.

SO, that weight for 8 is impressive but still begs the question, Why?

Roy Bogue wrote: steve748 wrote: I Have over the the last 15 years lifted with bruce a few times so thats a urban myth 8 reps at 286lb power clean is no slouch !! that weight for 8 is impressive but still begs the question, Why?

+1

Why Not?

Bruce easily cleaned over 300lbs for reps so i suppose his base was solid due to the high rep workouts.

This was around the time when aitken ,king,sandford were pushing up all the hammer records.

The only record never held by an american to date .

C. Smith wrote: It's ok, no one else really believes it either.  Kara was a huge non-believer until she tried it as well.  I think people are scared to try a program like mine, and therefore never do.

I have to HONEST here Craig.  Is the "diet" the REAL Secret ....lol  Can you tell us the bodyweight gains as well on your reduced lifting training- PROGRAM  ?

lol, my diet consists of food, and lots of it, with no restriction.  Lots of snacks, lots of milk, lots period.  A typical day for me is 1+ lb. of beef and 1+ lb. of pasta, and everything after that is bonus. 

As far as bodyweight, i have stayed the same.  I weigh right about 275, although im lean and have abs showing.  So i can't really attribute any strength gains to body weight.  If people would try to train the way i do i know they would see great results, but like i said, no one is willing to deviate that far...

Coach, you seem not to like strong people.  Your comment on the WOB, just get a huge clean and dead and throw it.  Like that is easy, and you can do that in a couple of weeks.  Some of us have toiled for decades to get stronger and more mass.  You seem to discount that as some easy task.  If it is so easy, why don't you have your son do it.  I know he is busy in a book, like we are not busy feeding our families and busting our hump 14 hours a day at a job.  Better yet, you do it and show us all.   

I have competed with C for quite a few years and have watched him work year after year on his power.  Now is he strong and is a one of the top throwers in the world and you want to discount that.  Why?

Silverback wrote: Coach, you seem not to like strong people.  Your comment on the WOB, just get a huge clean and dead and throw it.  Like that is easy, and you can do that in a couple of weeks.  Some of us have toiled for decades to get stronger and more mass.  You seem to discount that as some easy task.  If it is so easy, why don't you have your son do it.  I know he is busy in a book, like we are not busy feeding our families and busting our hump 14 hours a day at a job.  Better yet, you do it and show us all.    I have competed with C for quite a few years and have watched him work year after year on his power.  Now is he strong and is a one of the top throwers in the world and you want to discount that.  Why?

Myles you are CORRECT !!!  I like technique versus raw strength because its harder to get.  You can ALWAYS get stronger...!

Craig has been quite candid in his "Who cares " about performance enhancement.  Too each his own ? 

 Without stating the olbvious.  I would prefer the longer-slower  patient approach much like Sean Betz's path.

So I quess we will have to agree too dis-agree ?

LOL, so becuase i don't care what someone else does (call me selfish), that makes it appropriate for you to throw insinuations in my direction? 

I have that correct right, because we disagree on something you dislike me?  looooooooooool!  Good thing there are no politics and religion discussions on here!

Craig,

Love what you have accomplished so far....and I really have to agree with "so becuase i don't care what someone else does".  We can only control ourselves and sometimes we cannot do that either.

As far as the gains are concerned...I am understanding your training.  I am starting to get a bit more rest between lifts and it is paying off.

Myles...you will like this one: I was squatting heavy and someone asked if I was worried about hurting myself with the weight.  I said, "Hell yes.  It is the thought of tearing muscle and tendons that makes me push so damn hard."

Good stuff Craig....Keep it up.

Craig...you seem as adamant about the "choice" issue as I am about keeping the sport WHAT it is.  A cultural/historical sporting event.

With that said.  Should there be an OPEN Heavy Events Association and a NATURAL Heavy Events ?

I know there is a similar set up in POWER Lifting ?

dWood wrote: ..don't like where this going

+1

LOL, Coach, could you seriously be anymore of a dickhead?

I sent you a PM in hopes of addressing some of the things you said, which were deleted before i got to see them apparently, that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about. 

Open vs. Natural?  Hahahahahahahahah.  Let's assume for a minute that happened.  You know what, no matter what my stance on performance enhancing substances was, i would go where the competition was better.  If it happened to be better on the Open side, i would throw there due to people throwing farther, despite not taking drugs.  Do you not understand that?  I know alot of Powerlifers who lift in non-tested federations and dont use themselves because that's where the big lifts are.  Not everyone is a little bitch about performance enhancing drugs, and not everyone whines when they lose to someone who flat out performed better, despite what else they did.  Do you not understand that?????  Sheesh...am i talking slow enough for you to get that?  Not every one cares to make excuses when they lose.   

Well its a good thing there are no politics on here ...LOL  Lots of ANGER and thats bad for the blood-pressure !

   SO I quess that what one says is NOT what they neccsessairily believe ?   That says a lot in my book, but I can live with that. 

I DO think that there are games where its all about the show (most of the Dougie Edmunds shows) and ANYONE clean or otherwize can throw in them .  Kieth Tice use to call them GARBAGE GAMES and I'll leave it at that.

Likewize when you pay your association fee's and support a non-drug tested lifting associationo aren't you supporting that organization by participating ... ? 

CHECK THE DATE:

HINT CHRISTMAS EVE....

SO I quess that what one says is NOT what they neccsessairily believe ?   That says a lot in my book, but I can live with that.

I never said that.  I BELIEVE that drug testing is completely unnecessary in HG.  Apparently there are others out there who belive the same thing.  Now, in this thread alone there are 5 more people you can hate.  I don't care what anyone else does, that says absolutey nothing about what i do with my body.  I really don't care if you go play in traffic on the freeway (and at this point i actually encourage it), but that doesn't mean i would do it.  DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

I DO think that there are games where its all about the show (most of the Dougie Edmunds shows) and ANYONE clean or otherwize can throw in them .  Kieth Tice use to call them GARBAGE GAMES and I'll leave it at that.

So by that approach, and your thoughts expressed in this thread, any athlete who has knowingly compete in one of those games is absolutely condoning drug use in highland games?  That's pretty much what you've said right?  Otherwise they would have the morals to not compete in such a GARBAGE GAME.  Wow, i guess there are some dirty dirty people in the top 10 now.  I wonder if you have ever coached any of them? 

Likewize when you pay your association fee's and support a non-drug tested lifting associationo aren't you supporting that organization by participating ... ?

How many games have you done where you haven't been tested or haven't had to sign a waiver.  Does that mean they are supporting drug use?  Your logic is so flawed here it's not even funny.

this thread should return back to its original subject on not lifting vs lifting instead of staying on its current course...

with the exception of about 20 front squat workouts in a 6 or 7 week span, I did not lift at all from February 2006 to December 2007.

My 2007 season PRs in the stone, both weights and both hammers STAYED at 92 - 95% of my lifetime PRs (since 2000) with a new PR in the sheaf this year as well...not sure what to attribute this to - probably just slight technique improvements making up for deteriorating stength.

Now after lifting hard all winter - I am excited for the season to begin. 

While Bob's impression of the Edmund games may be true - it CERTAINLY doesn't mean I wouldn't want to go compete at his games. Paid throwing venues are paid throwing venues - even if they bring in the hulkamaniacs- just makes me want to beat them in a comp even more...regardless of their means - these are still the best athletes in the world and those are the ones I want to compete against.

I imagine this is how Craig feels too.

oh my gawd....Will actually gets it.

But according to Coach Mac Will, you are then SUPPORTING the non-tested games.  tsk...tsk....

I will go back to my point and question, how is it easier to get stronger?  I think it is easier to get technique.  If strength is so easy, then why does not everyone have it?  And my power lifting titles were in drug free federations.  Again, I toiled for years to get strong and you dismiss it like nothing.  Then you do it.  Show me how easy it is.  You do it now.  Show us all.  No talk, just show us how easy and fast it is. 

And I agree also with C about testing.  Why?  Just get out there and throw.  Testing has sure stopped them all in track, tennis, football, baseball, hockey and every other sport right?  So if I agree with no testing I am taking something.  Is that your thought?  I don't even drink beer or soda these days.  Sweet tea is about as potent as I get. 

Topic: No lifting?

I think lifting is good.  I miss it.  Throwing is good too. I miss it too.  I miss Brock's magic tacky smeared beneath me kilt from adjusting between throws.  Go to http://www.brockthrow.com - www.brockthrow.com and get yourself ready for the season.  

LOL whatev on your deleted post coach mac!!!  i've been tested so many times in both PL and OL (real deal, 3rd party, IOC, USADA/WADA, both in and out of competition, no shady bs) and i'm training for a USAPL meet right now.  don't you know the reason we do "open" meets in PL is so we can wear even more cheat gear and further abuse the already lax rules of performance?  drugs...what do you think, equipped PL is a strength sport?  just add another layer to your shirt and arch some more or get a fatter gut. 

One of my favorite things concerning this sport as well as this board is how the best of the best are always willing to share there routines, workout frequencies and what actually works for them. The comraderie is what makes the pain of training worthwhile. Why is it that the non competing athletes are the ones who try to nullify this comraderie? If my competitor wants to enhance so be it, it is what it is. I still have to work my butt of to better myself....Getting stronger and bettering technique ain't easy but when it comes together its a beautiful thing. You better the sport by lifting each other up, you tear down the sport and your reputation with accusations.

Will,

How much technique work did you do.  Was it everyday, every other day etc.  I find the topic about less work better results interesting in the fact that is pretty much how I do my routine now, and it seems to be paying off.

kara wrote: ...or get a fatter gut.

Please don't, you are a hottie.  (Can I say that?  Does Craig know where I live?)((Prolly doesn't matter since I am just a little B class.))

...why they all taken?

Please don't, you are a hottie.  (Can I say that?  Does Craig know where I live?)((Prolly doesn't matter since I am just a little B class.)) ...why they all taken?

I can run the IP address's on this board you know... 

But yea, the fat gut comment obv didn't apply to my wife. 

Dang it....I was going to post on this topic and by the time I read it all....I forgot what the topic was. 

I will say this:  For 5 years I weight trained hard and threw only in meets....and sucked.  Then I started throwing more and lifting less.....and my throws started to go up, up, and up.  Then I totally dropped lifting for the summer, and my throws went up some more, then I started lifting only for about 4 months in the winter, more PR's...and the funniest part of all, when I did weight train, I hit several lifetime PR's this past winter including a 315 hang clean.  I was fresher and renewed when I returned to weight training.  So, throwing more, lifting less....good thing. 

dl_buffy wrote: kara wrote: ...or get a fatter gut.  Please don't, you are a hottie.  (Can I say that?  Does Craig know where I live?)((Prolly doesn't matter since I am just a little B class.))

LOL!!!  don't worry...i choose option A) the arch, to maximize my bastardization of the bench press

Kilted Billy...you are a goodlook'in man....

Mr.C Smith....For most of my lifting career X 2 a week

sometimes 3 but mostly 2 x,because thats all my puny body could take,and I made the most gain

God Bless and happy Lifting

Todd Bell

2x/week is an excellent lifting methodolgy for throwing, or anything.

Two positives:

1. Extra time for other athletic endeavors such as, oh I don't know, throwing?

2. Extra time for eating/sleeping and NOT doing other athletic endeavors if the goal is just straight up size, strength and general awesomeness.

Note that #2 worked well for me in terms of getting large/strong, but did not help my throws as much as option 1 might have, in hindsight.

I'd love to see an untested Olympics, can you imagine?

I'm Jeff Ingram and I approve of this message.

Jeff Ingram wrote: .   I'd love to see an untested Olympics, can you imagine?

I imagine we pretty much see it every four years as it is.  Just sayin'....

Mark you smart arse.  Are you going to Glasgow again?  I plan to be there this year.  Get more of that KO family cookin. 

Jeff Ingram wrote: I'd love to see an untested Olympics, can you imagine?

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/all-drug-olympics-p1.php - http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/all-drug-olympics-p1 .php  

That's gotta be disappointing to the big Russian!

Jason

Jason J wrote: Jeff Ingram wrote: I'd love to see an untested Olympics, can you imagine? http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/all-drug-olympics-p1.php - http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/all-drug-olympics-p1 .php   That's gotta be disappointing to the big Russian! Jason

 I love that one

Holy crap was this thread all over the place !

Lifting 2x's per week in season -good  Throwing 3x's per week-good

Drugs-good  lol  Testing- bad

Sweet Tea - GOOD . They finally started selling it  up north in Yankee country. At of all places McDonalds ..mmm..I'm luvin it ! 

The only place to find it at a resturant up here in Mi. is Cracker Barrell, or Logans steakhouse. Now when I'm on working I make sure I get my daily fix going thru the McD's drive thru. I was raised on it as my parents were from Kentucky , and my wife sure gets tired of making it all summer. 

3-4 lifting and throwing pre season, 2-3 during season, I will have to agree with CSmith, for me, less is often more. Cyborg trains the same way, 2-3 days per week, but smokes it when he trains. My sessions last 3-4 hours (tonight was 6pm -9:45pm throw 3 events, lift 3 lifts). BUT I schedule my training around rest days, not rest around training days. For me, rest is the MOST important key to throwing far, I can drop bombs when I am UNDER trained, OVER trained, not so good.

Just my 2 cents. oh yeah, I will lift all year.

wow.

3 - 4 hours, 2 - 3 times a week?

so...who pays your bills?

well, I only train 2 days during the work week, tuesday and thursday. The other training days are sat and maybe sunday. I start at 5pm. I am not married, and have no kids. So I figure I will train like a single man for as long as possible.  Part of training is research and development for work, so in a way my training might actually pay my bills.  who knew? Can't leave research / development and design to the white coat scientist types, gotta get dirty. I mean, I have a power rack and platform 18' from my desk at work, getting in a workout is not that tuff. 

How long do you guys train for? Most of you are actually responsible human beings that have families, just like to know what I am in for one day.

how old is the youngin'?

Bert Sorin wrote: How long do you guys train for? Most of you are actually responsible human beings that have families, just like to know what I am in for one day.

Probably 1-1.5 hours.  Realistically i couldn't do anymore than that if i wanted to.  It's hard enough to walk and breath after i do what i do, but to continue on longer than that i would just be wasting time, imo.

my baby just turned 15 months

I would love to be able to lift then throw but it just takes too much right now to go right from 70 degrees to 38 degrees without dreading it...

Bert Sorin wrote: Do you throw and lift the same day? My lifting does not take more than 1-1.5hrs either. Later in the season I will shorten the workouts, but for now, I am still in conditioning mode. That makes competitions easy.

When i used to practice (a couple years ago) i did.  It would usually be 1 hour in the gym, then usually one (maybe two) events (but i only ever practiced the weights and hammer anyway).  But since i dont throw anymore i save alot of time

Married with a 6 year old daughter. I hit the Gym in the A.M. before work. It’s quiet in there and I can focus (nobody is doing curls in the power rack!). Usually 4-5 days a week for about 90 minutes. During season I will lift 2-3 days and throw two to three (all predicated on recovery). My biggest workouts are on either Sat/ Sun where I throw a marathon practice for 4+ hours. I’d like to commit more time to throw…but I don’t have it…closest good filed is a 45 min drive for me…

I train 4 days a week for about 1/2 hour 40 min. I do it as soon as Im home from work and its a little stress releaver too. I couldnt do 2 days a week for 1-2 hours just because of family and time. No one gets mad at my house (wife) if I train 4 days for a short short time. but still only doing about the same amount of training that Smith is doing in 2 days I just spreed it out over 4.

O I do a little bike on Sat-Sun before anyone is awake for about a mile and or 20min with ever comes first.

What evidence do we have of Craig Smith being on the juice?

Apart from his comment about not caring about drug testing?

Phil Pfister is putting on a strongman show that is drug tested (I think everyone gets tested) and despite much sponsorship, the entry fee is around $300.

If that's what it costs to have a 'clean' field, I don't want it.

I've been training 4-5 times a week recently in the gym for around 1.5hours, sometimes less sometimes more. When my main strength levels improve to around 550 FS, 660+ BS, 700DL, then I'll probably drop to 3 times a week, maybe even 2 sometimes. Less is more once you've put the hard work in getting to a good level.

As for Pfister's contest, I think it is a great idea. Pay to get in, anyone can show up, they take 10 to the final, top 10 get paid after tests clear. Yeah, there is a hefty entry fee, but also a hefty prize output, I think top 10 get paid $1,000 on up to $10,000, or something to that effect (from what Phil told me). Plus, they are trying to get HUGE TV coverege, and a spot to the World's Strongest Man. It cost money to do that. I would GLADLY pay $300 to compete in something that could get me to the Olympics if I thought I had a shot at going. And as far as the no pro / am thing at his contest, brilliant. No pro card needed... if you can heng with the big dogs, and pass a drug test, a card should not keep you from making big $. I know Cyborg and Tex (both Am's) are looking forward to the contest.

I wish they did Highland games this way. As many throwers that want to come can throw. After the 56wfd and open stone, take the top 10 for the other events. And those guys get paid according to place, pro or not.  Wait, sorry, I seriously did not mean to make this a pro vs. am discussion.

Jono - please don't use too much logic, some people 'round these parts just wont be able to comprehend.

Also, you are smart in your training, i like it.

Bert Sorin wrote: (from what Phil told me).

Wow.... I would so ask for an introduction.  He appears to be a very generous and honest person.  Not mention tuff as nails.