Updated and enhanced. 

In addition to sorting by the total score, I have also provided the ranking for the Overhead Shot Toss, as this is arguably the most relevant test for throwers, at least without factoring in bodyweight.  This will also allow those who don't want to perform the jumps to participate.

So I figured that we’d keep a thread and note everyone’s progress/marks. I will continuously update this as needed. This is to test:

Standing Long Jump: Standing at the edge of a long jump pit, with toes slightly over the edge of the board, perform a standing long jump into the pit. Measure from the lip of the board to the closest disturbance of the sand where you landed.

Standing Triple Jump: Feet together, hop three times and land in a long jump pit. Measure from your starting position to the closest disturbance of the sand where you landed.

16lb Overhead Shot: Standing on top of a shot put stopboard (your back to the pit), dip down (much like the preparatory crouch for a vertical jump), swing the shot between the legs, and then extend and throw the shot overhead backwards. It is not necessary to remain on the stopboard. Measure from the lip of the stopboard to the first point of impact.

This is open to anyone, so test it and post the results. Make some bets, challenge yourself and others, get better in the offseason!

Updated April 24/08:

AlDargie wrote: Question on the shot - I assume this is one handed.  Is the shot reverse grip like the wob or like a curl grip??

It's two handed.

Al, let's do this together. I'll show you how to do the OH Shot. I have a 16 pound shot that we can use.

Al,

The shot is cupped in two hands, much like a caber.  I think you would have to be Bert's dad or Phil Phister etc. to do it one handed with a 16# shot!!!

6'3" 280 slj 3'5  tj 10'2  ohshot 15' 3/4"

LarryBrock wrote: 6'3" 280 slj 3'5  tj 10'2  ohshot 15' 3/4"

Dont worry, next time will be better im sure. 

Seriously though, you should do this.

yea, i took the sprint out.  i'm not running anywhere.

You should retest Brock.  for the here and now.

Im in on the jumps I ant running eather.

6'1 262 11/6/07 SLJ 8.11

Doing STJ / Shot tonight got rained out last night.

Should I do this before or after leg training?

I will hop in on the test as well. I have not done the 30m sprint in a few years, nor am I going to start. Last time it felt like my hamstrings popped off and flapped around behind me like a tail as I ran.

Will hopefully do the OH and maybe jumps today. It is a good test, As I was peaking before Scotland and Am Worlds last season, my OH shot jumped up a few feet, I knew I was ready and recovered. A key to making it a true test is to remain at the same level of proficiency. If you have never done overheads, and then do them all the time you will get more skilled at the test, and could have "monster gains".  If you do them a lot now, stay with them, if not, take that into account.

My roommate in college had a sick quad score. 67' overhead shot, 3.55sec 30m dash, 10'5" standing broad, and about 27-29' triple jump. He was 6'5" 265-280. Pretty nasty. Just for the hell of it he had a 550 raw bench, 429 power clean, 320 snatch and could squat a lot (620x5), never maxed. Serious horse power. 62' stand with the 18lb. shot in training!

This will be fun!

Today is the 6th not the 7th I just noticed.

I don't think they have to be the same day.  I did my SLJ last weekend and will do the other two this week (i too got rained out yesterday). 

Can't wait to hear Chris.

I hate to put a dampner on any type of competitive off-season activity but you guys have too realize that this Quad testing was specificialy designed for Javelin throwers.   Hence the slant towards the speed -strength end of testing.

I would not want to give any of the p.t's or orthopedic surgeons any richer from the ankle-knee's  OR hamstrig injuries from a test that involves ballistic jumping off one leg and full out sprinting over 30-m.

I would say the risk of injury form a standing TJ OR 30-m sprint far outways the reward and in reality is not very valuable information for a Heavy Event athlete anyway.

So....well i guess i'll be switching to javelin next year. 

This for fun and to have some competative drive in the offseason.  We took the sprints out and there are no one leg bounds.  The numbers are just something different than "list your best squat, deadlift, clean, etc..."

And if i really weighed the risk/reward in my training all the time, there are quite a few things i wouldn't do.  (*cue Valenti with the Louis Simmons quote)

I went out and did the test today.  It was 40 degrees, outside.  I threw the 16# indoor shot off the discus circle.  I jumped from the concrete to the grass on the SLJ, and jumped off grass on the TJ with both legs.

SLJ = 9'3",  I had to one-up Craig.

OH Shot = 59'1" all three were over 57'

TJ = 27'

Be careful when testing. Next time I"ll actually find a long jump pit. I about ruptured my sack on the last TJ.   I did a pull workout yesterday with Snatches, Snatch Pulls, and Snatch deads.  I think it actually helped my OH Shot.

Everyone can play Sinder.

See, now i can't wait to do it again to see if i can outjump Sean.  Fuel on the fire baby.  Tomorrow, you're going down Betz!!

Test Done.

SBJ = 8' 2"

STJ = 21' 6"

Overhead Shot = 34' 10"

Coach Mac wrote: I hate to put a dampner on any type of competitive off-season activity but you guys have too realize that this Quad testing was specificialy designed for Javelin throwers.

I have never ever heard or read this before.  Certainly our entire throwing group formally went through this series of tests (including the 30m sprint) a few times a year and we were mostly discus throwers and shot putters, along with one or two jav throwers. 

I have copied this off the main website dealing with the Quadrathlon:

Target Group

This test is suitable for all athletes especially throwers (e.g. javelin, discus, shot, hammer) but not for individuals where the test would be contraindicated.

As Craig mentioned and is outlined and noted above, the 3-jumps test involves 3 consecutive hops off both feet.  Single leg jumps are very different and certainly do put a great deal of stress on the achilles tendon and are to be avoided.  In my experience, none of these tests, including the 30m sprint, are dangerous if the athlete is properly prepared, warms up well, and selects a suitable jumping surface.  This is even true of the 30m sprint if the athlete is used to sprinting hard to some extent.  If the athlete has done no preparatory sprinting that test should probably be avoided (as we are) as it could result in a hamstring or perhaps quad injury for such a person. 

I guess I am getting old and soft...LOL   Lets take a a hypo (not a needle) theoretical case here and not really stretch it....pun intended

EXAMPLE A- post colliegete late 20's.  Took a couple of years off training after college and is training/playing in the  highland games.  IF he has not achieved the 30 + % body fat levels "yet" he can probably do just about any of these tests and if we had a 100-member sample group maybe only a  couple would turn up with a muscle strain or two. (BERT SORIN comes to mind)

EXAMPLE -B...a late starting newbie who is late 30's early 40's.  IF he has Flexibility issues.  High levels of body fat,,,and a MACHO attitude (warm ups are for pussy's)  I've never seen a Husky stretch ect-ect. this is the formula for perhaps a season ending OR worse...carreer ender.  Do you guys read any of these posts ?    These types of injuries are right here on the board...

SPEAKING as an Olympic Development coach who has worked repeatedly over the last 7-years at the the Olympic Training Centers with out top throwers from ages 17- 32...this IS an issue especially with the PLUS-30-year olds.  How to maintain and manage the high levels of power without getting injured .IS the main issue with a lot of our elite putters as we speak.

P.S. I have had a couple of animated conversations with the West Coast transplant (Louie Simmons) who trained at Peanut Wests gym in Culver City (the original Westside Gym) and he has A) dropped his speed percentages much lower than 58-60% first proposed and changed his box squat technique as well. 

 I think all the surgery's perhaps is the reason ?  At one point I assumed one of the requirements was to have  had a major surgery to train there (thats the bad news)  The good news is that Louie keeps his mind OPEN and adapts to change.

THE SEVEN WORDS THAT ALWAYS LEADS TOO FAILURE...WE_ALWAYS_HAVE_DONE_IT_THAT_WAY !!!

Craig - this was terrible... glad it's a starting point.  I could definitely tell lifting has not been dynamic.  6'3", 355 lb, SLJ 8', Triple 24', OHS 49'. 

Dave

Mac  Are you saying were all going to get hurt doing this type of test? Im a littel confused on your post.

Coach Mac wrote: ...a late starting newbie who is late 30's early 40's.  IF he has Flexibility issues.  High levels of body fat,,,and a MACHO attitude (warm ups are for pussy's)  I've never seen a Husky stretch ect-ect. this is the formula for perhaps a season ending OR worse...carreer ender.

McCracken,

I would say that whoever meets the description above should probably not do the triple hop test due to the possibility of injury, in addition to not doing the 30 meter sprint that most of us are skipping anyway (for now...).  However, if you can't safely perform the other two tests once every 30-90 days you should definitely not be throwing any HG implements either!!! 

As indicated ad nauseum, warm-ups are essential, both for maximum performance in these types of dynamic movements and to minimize the possibility of injury.

I think another way to look at Coach MAc's post is your level of fitness.  I deal with 15 college sports and most do testing.  It is amazing how many college "athletes" are not physically prepared to do the tests.  In football we usually have 3-4 players that pull hamstrings or hip flexors the first day when they test their 40 times.  Why?  they have not prepared.  they did not train at high enough intensities to handle the load.  They did not prepare beforehand thru warming up correctly.  Or they are mismatched in muscular development between muscles of the hips.

If you have not done the tests or similar activities for a long time or are out of shape to perform the tests.  A little training before hand is good. 

We are all at different levels of training and fitness right now. If I had a dollar for every kid who pulls out a workout he/she wants to do because they got it from a pro baseball/football etc player I would not have to work again.

If needed set up you training to prepare for the tests.  the triple hop test takes a "little" skill and coordination to do it well.

Peter Ingleton wrote: Coach Mac wrote: ...a late starting newbie who is late 30's early 40's.  IF he has Flexibility issues.  High levels of body fat,,,and a MACHO attitude (warm ups are for pussy's)  I've never seen a Husky stretch ect-ect. this is the formula for perhaps a season ending OR worse...carreer ender.  However, if you can't safely perform the other two tests once every 30-90 days you should definitely not be throwing any HG implements either!!!

Thats the reason I asked anyone that is doing this should be in good enough shape and have enough brains to be prepaired. Im not the sharpest tool in the shed but even I know that.

LarryBrock wrote: 6'3" 280 slj 3'5  tj 10'2  ohshot 15' 3/4"

Are you measuring in meters again?

Nope.  Did not get locked up in a turkish prison.  Been stampin' out disease, saving the world.

Great Idea Craig!!  I went out today after reading this and did SLJ and Triple....here is where I ended up:

8' and 24'5".  Great starting point, anxious to see how I progress. 
Oh, 5'11" and 264...36yrs (holy s**t).

Things I noticed:  Not really flexible...felt like I should have been able to extend waaaayyyy further.  Not the case...feet just wanted back on the ground.  Good idea to wear cleats...fell on my ass 1st SLJ...switched shoes....looked to see if the mexicans drinking in the park noticed.  Feels weird applying maximum force to my legs....kinda like when your quads feel like they are cramping at the peak of a verticle jump.

Once again....great idea.

kevin carpenter!  back from the grave!  good to see you around brother.

I tested all three tonight.  i actually realize that you NEED to use your arms for the jumps.  Interesting.

Anyhoo, i went 9'9" in the SLJ (Get some 'o dat Betz!!!), 29'3" in the STJ, and 55'4" in the OH Shot.  I think i need some practice with the shot (and the jumps too for that matter, but my SLJ was def improved but i didnt squat first tonight either.)

Chart will be updated tomorrow morning.

With various people now doing this test and posting their results I just realized I should make a couple of things clear.  First, the categorization listed above, while reasonable, is very non-scientific and somewhat arbitrary.  Second, it would include competitive throwers from perhaps the college freshman level up to the very best in the world.  In other words, numerous (perhaps even most) people doing this test will definitely get under 50', which is fine, and I would be extremely impressed if anyone involved gets 65'. 

A more reasonable expected range for most Highland Games athletes would be something like 40'-60' after a bit of practice, with some lightweights, older Masters, and Novices even lower.  Note that the 50th percentile is 40'9", 66th percentile is 49'9", and the 75th percentile is 54'9", while 60' scores in the 84th percentile.

Also, while the movement is relatively simple to learn, there is a bit of technique and especially timing involved, so those who haven't done this before should improve a bit (or maybe a lot) very quickly. 

For those who wish to understand where their performances stand compared to other individuals of every type and ability, I have copied the performance chart that Craig thoughtfully posted in the "Standing Broad Jump (for Peter)" thread. The results are in metric, so you will have to do the following conversion:  take your score in feet (changing inches to percentage of a foot) multiply by 12, then multiply by 2.54, then divide by 100 to get your result in meters. 

Finally, please understand that the results do not take factors such as height, weight, or age into consideration.  A given result in the jumps is much more impressive for a heavier athlete, and taller athletes certainly have an inherent advantage in the overhead toss. 

Again, the real point of these tests is to measure and compare over time how your training is affecting the various aspects of your own explosiveness or speed-strength, which is an important property in throwing.  Combined with tests of your maximum strength in a few selected exercises (ideally Power Clean, Bench Press OR Push Press, Back Squat OR Front Squat, and perhaps Snatch-Grip OR full Deadlifts), this will provide you with a complete picture of your strength, power, and explosiveness. 

I think a basic "uncovered" theme of this thread is that you need to be in better shape ( "you" meaning all of us). If you can't perform a basic test, as Peter put it, how are you going to throw in the HG games very other weekend and not get hurt? Be prepared, be healthy.

good luck to everyone this off season.

I did some good GPP work yesterday, I dragged a 7pt. buck a quarter mile up and down hills, through tree tops and downfalls to the truck (while wearing a wool suit and carrying a pack and rifle). Hammies are pretty tired today, but it was one of the most fun "workouts" of the off season.  Ready to deadlift and bench today

Craig,

Tested today as promised, even though it was 43 degrees F outside(!!!).

6'3", 260, 41 y.o.

16# Overheads - 50'6" after just a few attempts, proceeding directly to

Standing Broad Jump (onto grass, unfortunately) - 2.59m (8'6") - took 6 jumps, 4 of which were within 3 cm (1.2") - jumping into a long jump pit is highly recommended for both max performance and reducing wear and tear.  It really allows you to be much more aggressive.  Proceeded directly to

3 consecutive hops (onto grass) - 8.02m (26'4") after 2 attempts, before having to leave when the school I was at let out.  I know I can do much better at this one.  Again, jumping into a long jump pit is highly recommended.

Results are below what I did or am sure I could have done 2-3 months ago, but that will be true for most at this time of year.  Reality can be harsh.  I am thinking of testing this again in a few days if the weather is reasonable.

This should make every one feel better about themselves.

I'm 28, 6' & 254 w/ chicken legs

SLJ 7'9"

STJ 21'8"

OSP 33'9" ( I used a 16# bowling ball cause that's what I have  )

I guess it's a starting point. I've never done TF "stuff" before HG. I'll keep lifting hard & see what happens in January. For me it's squats, deads &  cleans through the winter. I figure I need a solid foundation before I get concerned w/ everything else ya'll debate about.

thanks for the motivation!

Bert Sorin wrote: I think a basic "uncovered" theme of this thread is that you need to be in better shape ( "you" meaning all of us). If you can't perform a basic test, as Peter put it, how are you going to throw in the HG games very other weekend and not get hurt? Be prepared, be healthy.   good luck to everyone this off season. I did some good GPP work yesterday, I dragged a 7pt. buck a quarter mile up and down hills, through tree tops and downfalls to the truck (while wearing a wool suit and carrying a pack and rifle). Hammies are pretty tired today, but it was one of the most fun "workouts" of the off season.  Ready to deadlift and bench today

Nice one. I had the same cardio Sat. draged her for 1/2 mile out of a swamp then up hill to the truck, thought I was going to Die.You hunters like us know how difficult this can be. And o so much fun, fresh meat Sunday for dinner.YUM!

Sorry didnt mean to hijack.

306lbs?

^^^^  bwhwhaahahahahahahhahaha!

C'mon Hadley, get in this.  Everyone else, do it!!!

Valenti wrote: YES Greg  !   306lbs!  Do you have a problem with that?  I am fat,ok thanks for making me feel bad you Canadian Bastard!  I hope Jason Johnson kicks your ass! Yeah why aint Hadley in on this?

hahahahahahahahahaha damn, Valenti you know how to make a brother laugh.

I may get in on it. I'm keeping my training on the DL this year. I'm taking it back old school.

Valenti wrote: .....gravy shot out of my shoes when I landed....

That was funny.

Wow, 306 is right on, wish I was in that neighborhood.

Isaac and I tried it again today.   Isaac weighs 200 and is 6'2" tall.   His scores were as such

SLJ 9' 7"

STJ 29' 1"

My new scores were

STJ 10' 4"

STJ 31' 2"

OHS 43' 5"

A little brother rivalry helps with my scores I think.  

Height 5'-8"

SLJ 8'-4"

STJ 23'-0"

OSH 45'-2"

Eclipse wrote: Height 5'-8" SLJ 8'-4" STJ 23'-0" OSH 45'-2"

Bob you forgot to put your weight down.

Trainerterry wrote: Bob you forgot to put your weight down.

The scale said "OUCH"... Conventional scales do not go that high.

I will have the rest of the nubers before the week end.

If it ever stops raininig.

Bert Sorin

6'3"

242lb.

overhead shot 58' 1 1/2"

Broad Jump 9'2"

Triple Jump 26'8" (all jumps in sand)

Finally got to the tests.  OH shot was about 4' off college PR.  I will wait to re-test and report my triple jumps because it was wet out and I was very tentative.

Beau Fay - 11/13/07

6'2" 249 lbs.

OH Shot Throw: 52'1"

Standing Long Jump: 8'1"

I was just talking with Paul Ferency and we were discussing all this testing stuff...and we both agreed that the only thing that needs to be changed is the overhead shot. Here's what we were thinking that would be better suited for the Highland Games to see how far you can overhead the 56lb weight.  Now that's a test of all test.  My money would be on Dave Brown lol

Here's some marks that I got out of Paul from back in his prime:

6'6

330lbs

34' - VJ

11'5 - SLJ

47.7 - 40 time

65+ OHS

And he could do a back flip at that weight...now that's impressive people.  Oh, and by the way, his hip is on the way to full recovery.  Also, his Dr. just gave him the go-ahead to start up some drilling and throwing in the near future, so the masters 50-54 better look out...records will definitely fall. 

Ryan Vierra wrote: I was just talking with Paul Ferency and we were discussing all this testing stuff...Here's some marks that I got out of Paul from back in his prime: 6'6 330lbs 34' - VJ 11'5 - SLJ 47.7 - 40 time 65+ OHS.

Now those are some SERIOUS jumping numbers at that weight!!!

Those of you who read the "Power Output" thread I started last year might recall that one's power output may be calculated by multiplying the square root of one's vertical jump in inches by the square root of one's weight in pounds.  Given that Paul did those jumps when he weighed 330, his power output at that time comes out to 105.92, which is the highest score I can personally recall hearing about.  Compare Paul's score to those of some other throwers you might have heard of:

Kevin Akins (31.1 at 319) - 99.60

Werner Gunthoer (35.4 at 277) - 99.02

Ulf Timmermann (36.2 at 262) - 97.39

Andy Bloom (37 at 255) - 97.18

So you can see that Paul's result on this basic measure was truly incredible.  Paul's SLJ was also just 10cm less than Gunthoer's very best (which remains one of the best results ever for a thrower) and 10cm more than Timmermann's, despite his significantly higher bodyweight.  Not to mention an excellent overhead, if a step below the athletes listed above (except possibly Bloom).

Very interesting Ryan.

p.s. I think there is a typo with respect to Paul's 40 yard time - I'm assuming it was 4.7 or 4.77.

Paul,

I certainly was not suggesting that your numbers were not legit, merely emphasizing how absolutely incredible they were.  I have changed the word "If" contained in my original post to "Given that" in order to avoid any such interpretation.  My apologies for any misunderstanding.  Great to hear from you.  We all look forward to the day when you step back on the field as a competitor.

Peter Ingleton

Terri - absolutely!  I think Kate should try also!

My thoughts, and of course you can do whatever, would be that you throw the 16lb shot as well.  Just to see where u end up.

I was curious about what some of the top results posted translated into overall "triathlon" test scores based on the chart provided and I came up with this to date (with distances rounded to nearest cm and no half points awarded for distances between scoring points):

1.  Craig Smith (Pro) - 223

2.  Sean Betz (Pro) - 215

3.  crazysaladboy (Nathan Burchett) (Am) - 211

4.  Bert Sorin (Pro) - 210

5.  Chris St. Clair (Pro) - 200

6.  Peter Ingleton (Master/Am) - 189

Isaac Burchett and Beau Fay appear very likely to have strong scores once they post their full results.  We look forward to seeing the scores of other athletes posted as well, especially those just finishing their competitive seasons.

For reference purposes, a rough categorization of scores might look something like this:

150 - average

175 - good

200 - very good

225 - excellent

250 - sensational

These scores do not take age, weight, or height into account, but lean bodyweight differences are balanced somewhat as stronger/heavier athletes have a significant advantage on the OHS test, while lighter athletes have a significant advantage in the jumping tests, especially the 3 jumps.  Results should also improve over the course of the training year, i.e. May should be much better than November.

As cautioned by Coach Mac and reported by others, these tests, especially the 3 Jumps test, can be hard on those who are not in reasonably good shape and/or have never included any jumping in their training.  Those who do not have any ankle, knee, hip, or low back issues and who warm up well will not likely experience any injuries, although some soreness (possibly significant) is very likely over the 48 hours or so following the tests.

Given the importance of strength in the Heavy Events, a complete picture of an athlete's physical abilities would also include their maximum results in 3-4 basic lifts. 

That's pretty interesting!  I can't wait (hope) til more people are able to get this done.  Just cool to see. 

I will obv have to retest in month or so, i need a couple points for a nice round number

Craig,

I agree.  You can already see the significance of the OHS result, which will become clearer as people get a bit more familiar with that test.  I think you will eventually see a very high correlation between that particular score and events like the Braemar stone and the WOB, especially for Master's.  I don't know what the story is regarding Dave Brown's result in the OHS test, but I suspect it might get a lot better very quickly given what I have heard about his abilities.

As noted previously, it would be even more interesting if people would include their max results in a few (usually 3) basic lifts.  Even just including one's result in a single lift like the below parallel front squat would go a long way towards completing the overall picture of an athlete, since strength is a component that cannot be ignored in throwing.

p.s. 2 extra points overall are initially very easy to get.  If half points were awarded you would already be at 224.  225 is in the bag for you on a good day.

p.p.s.  I would really like to see what Eric Frasure could do on this.

I thought I would take this one step farther and attempt to see what a couple of athletes who have provided their PRs in at least two of these tests would score on that basis.

Bert Sorin

OHS=18.90m=87

SLJ=3.17m=80

STJ=2 points less than SLJ as done recently=78  

Total=245

Paul Ferency

OHS=19.81=93

SLJ=3.48m=92

STJ=5 points less than SLJ (as Paul was huge and to be reasonably conservative)=87 

Total=272!!!!

Now that's interesting.

I may have the lowest numbers on the chart but that will just make me want to work harder.

5' 9"

212 lbs

SLJ 6' 6"

STJ 20'

OHS 28' 6"

KiltBill

Redid the OHS and added 2 feet, OHS = 22'

I have deciced to no longer use BEANO in an attemt to increase my power output. I WILL BE MORE EXPLOSIVE!!!!!!!

KiltBill

Sorry OHS = 30' 6".

KiltBill

hope you guys don't mind a scot joinin in, i was gonna test every month this winter and this has given me good incentive to improve on my first marks this winter.

ohs 56'10"

slj 8'10"

stj 26'4"

30m 4.6! piss poor

height 6'6"

315lbs (a wee bit wobbly after 6 weeks off!)

all time pr's, bw 255ish (discus throwin days)

ohs 59

slj 9'8"

stj 28'2"?

30m 3.7

Bruce Robb

Absolutely Bruce!