Lots of people? Damn, that's crazy.

How many throwers have reached that weight? For that matter, what are some of the most impressive lifts highland games throwers have achieved? This should be an interesting thread...

I saw my roommate in college almost make 500 BNJ. He hit 460x3 earlier that day. He was 6'5" 270 and threw the shotput 68'5" from a glide, won 3 NCAA titles and was in 3 Olympics. He also had a 330 snatch, 427 (just missed 440) clean, and 550 Bench (raw, after throws practice). He was a strong dude. Hadley, he was one of your fellow countrymen, Brad Snyder. Very explosive. I am sure some other big time guys have made that lift, but I have not heard of or seen any. From what I have seen, it is not very popular due to the need for someone to lower the weights down once you blast a big weight like that up. I gave up on them at 308x3. Too much trouble for a hammer thrower.

C.Smith, what other guys have you seen do that much? Let me know who they are so I can stay the hell away from them! Hell, you can probably do it.

Bert

Mike,

Thanks for the awesome post.  I am going to read that right before my next squat workout (since I can't really bench anymore).  Great stuff!

Peter.

How about this?  This was the conclusion of a similar thread, in which several of Udo Beyer's lifting marks were posted, supposedly as per Louie Simmons.  However, these were almost unreal, even for those understanding the extent of Beyer's gifts.  Anyway, someone eventually contacted Beyer himself and got the real numbers, which were about 10% lower than what had been claimed due to an honest conversion error.  As you can see below, his lifts were still astounding. 

One minor but relevant point:  the translator erroneously identifies the 90 degree half squats as "parallel squats", which is incorrect.  These squats were done to a few inches above parallel, understanding that Beyer was 6'5" tall.  I should mention that one of my old coaches personally witnessed Beyer doing a set of 5 reps of these squats very explosively with at least 800 pounds about a week before an international competition in about 1982.

GOHEAVY.COM Olympic Weightlifting Forum

Udo Beyer finally himself

Posted By: wolf hasenmaier (cache-frr-ad03.proxy.aol.com)
Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2006, @ 1:42 p.m.

Here is his answer:

His own commentary:

bankdruecken sauber(ohne huefte) 260 kg ( bench, no hip )
bench press raw and strict 573
bankdruecken mit huefte un kissen auf der brust 295 kg x 5
(bench with pad and hip movement)
bench raw with pad and arch 650 for 5
stossen im nacken 275 kg ( jerk behind neck)
jerk behind neck 606
umsetzen 210 kg ( clean)
clean 462
stossen von der brust 232,5 kg
jerk from the front 512
kniebeuge 375 kg (squat)
squat 815 lbs, he of course - he concentrated on parallel squats cause they have way more transfer to the shotput

halbe kniebeuge/90 grad 460x5 (half squat, 90 deg.)
parallel squats 1014 for 5 reps !!!!!!!!!!

reissen 157,5 kg im stand/wald und wiesentechnick (snatch,sloppy form)
power snatch with very crude form ( not into the squat but into the stand at 6 feet 5...) 347 lbs....

Bishop Dolegiewicz, the top Canadian shot putter during the latter half of the 1970s and early 1980s and 4th place in the 1980 WSM was also incredibly strong in the power clean, bench press, and back squat.  Sorry no numbers at the moment.  Geoff Capes, who was also a world class shot putter, HG World Champion, and top WSM competitor, was also extremely strong, but I know even less about his exact marks.  Both Bishop and Geoff were about 6'5" and around 300 pounds.

 

Bishop was very good friends with my original coach and the other older throwers with whom I worked out for the first few years.  I first met him through them when I was about 15.  He was an overwhelming physical presence at 6'5" tall and 295 in reasonable shape at that time. 

I am not sure of exact numbers, but I know he routinely did reps with 500 in the bench in a t-shirt (obviously) and at one point his fall programme included 3 sets of 10 reps in back squats with 610 pounds - these would have been done to just below parallel or so.  I recall something about 800x3 in the back squat, but I am not certain of this.  Keep in mind he (and Capes and Beyer) was about 6'5", which makes a difference in how far you are moving the weights.

Bert Sorin wrote: I saw my roommate in college almost make 500 BNJ. He hit 460x3 earlier that day. He was 6'5" 270 and threw the shotput 68'5" from a glide, won 3 NCAA titles and was in 3 Olympics. He also had a 330 snatch, 427 (just missed 440) clean, and 550 Bench (raw, after throws practice). He was a strong dude. Hadley, he was one of your fellow countrymen, Brad Snyder. Very explosive. I am sure some other big time guys have made that lift, but I have not heard of or seen any. From what I have seen, it is not very popular due to the need for someone to lower the weights down once you blast a big weight like that up. I gave up on them at 308x3. Too much trouble for a hammer thrower. C.Smith, what other guys have you seen do that much? Let me know who they are so I can stay the hell away from them! Hell, you can probably do it. Bert

Yeah Bert I know of Brad Snyder. I've never met him personally but have heard of his shot throws and lifts. Very impressive lifts.

Bayer's numbers are insane but when you are running that much fuel through your veins how can't they be?

Some of the most impressive lfits I've heard about include: Matt Sandfords 500lb high pull, Ken Lowther's 550 (I think) front squat, anything done by Dave Brown, The Big Chiefs behind the neck jerk, Parman's Oly lifts, Vierra's squats and core work and some of the stuff lifted by Zilstra.

arminius wrote: Wernor Gunthor is known to have done 10 singles with 300kg (661 lbs.)  He also had a 992 squat and 672 bench, with no gear.

I think you're confusing Beyer and Gunthor.

The Beyer 660x10 singles BNJ thing was resolved by an email being sent to Beyer. It turns out there is a difference between a German pound and an imperial pound. One is 2lbs per kg and the other is 2.2lbs per kg.

So he did 600lbs not 660. Pest 90 degree squat was 1012lbsx5 reps.

Gunthor was a freak, but I disagree with those numbers. I heard of a 600lb raw bench, which is insane given that Gunthor was 6'7 or 6'8 depending on who you ask.

Arminius, I'm going to disagree on Timmermans training too. He was ridiculously strong, bench pressing 210kg around the very early 20's with no arch or anything. I know this from conversations he had on the ring message board. After that he moved onto doing dyanimc benches, often with weights near 600lbs. His split snatch was from memory over 350lbs and his deep squat just over 800. I can promise you that his bench wasn't 418, maybe with 1 arm!

Ulf at 6'4 250-265 managed to throw further than Udo 6'5 275-320 on the basis of better technique but also a better power to weight ratio (very important in the glide)

big MAC wrote: Ulf at 6'4 250-265 managed to throw further than Udo 6'5 275-320 on the basis of better technique but also a better power to weight ratio (very important in the glide)

Big MAC,

All of this is true, but a very significant additional factor, which might be included in the power to weight ratio but is really a separate factor and deserves specific mention, is SPEED.  Timmermann was much FASTER than Beyer (and almost everyone else), in addition to having better technique, which is why he threw farther despite being significantly weaker than Beyer (along with almost everyone else). 

One must never forget that it is not limit strength that enables one to throw far, it is POWER, which is (in basic terms) speed x strength.  Both Timmermann and Beyer were very powerful, but their power was achieved in different ways - Timmermann with excellent speed and good strength, Beyer with sensational strength and relatively limited speed.  To complete the example, we could add Edward Sarul of Poland, the 1983 World Champion in the shot.  Sarul threw over 21m in 1983 despite possessing rather limited basic strength for a top-class shot putter (only around 400 pounds in the bench press).  However, Sarul was extremely fast and focussed on developing this element. 

Micheal Carter as a high school senior was perhaps the most extreme example of a speed-oriented thrower, throwing over 81' with the 12 pound shot weighing only about 220 pounds and benching less than 300 pounds.

The July 1993 copy of MILO confirms that Jim McGoldrick's lifetime PR in the "push press behind the neck" was 500 and that he still did 440 at 40 years of age (pg. 5).  Note that that is push presses, not jerks, which is much more impressive.  Obviously both McGoldrick and Randall Strossen (the publisher of MILO and the author of the article) clearly understand the difference between a push press and a jerk, so we must assume this was not a misunderstanding or a typo. 

I doubt too many guys have ever actually done a push press behind the neck with 500 pounds...

p.s. The Chief's lifetime PR in the power clean was noted as being 400, and a top weight of 340 at 40 years old, along with a squat of "over 600".

I better get in here to clear up a couple of things.

First, I was not the strongest American discus thrower of my era.  There were several guys with better cleans, snatches, squats, bench presses, and dead lifts.  I was indeed strong, and explosive, but several others were even more so.  And more importantly, several others threw farther.

My 500# overhead lift was a jerk behind the neck, done in 1975 or 76, at the Texas Athletic Club in Austin, TX.  I was very strong at this lift, as well as being quite proficient at timing the dip, drive, and split.  It is something of a trick lift, requiring some athleticism, and courage to get under a big weight.  I later did more work with push jerks and push presses, almost always behind the neck.

Pete, my best power clean was 400#, and 410# from the hang.  Best back squat was a high bar, narrow stance 630#, done with heels up on a 2 X 4, knees wrapped with ace bandages.  Many of us squatted that way in the 1980's.  Best power snatch 308#, done with a very high catch.  Best incline 440#, front squat 550#  Never did much deadlifting, but did 630# around 1976.

Mike Baab, that was the best bench press story I have ever heard.  Thanks for telling it.

Hope to see many of you this season.

Chief

Chief wrote: I better get in here to clear up a couple of things. First, I was not the strongest American discus thrower of my era.  There were several guys with better cleans, snatches, squats, bench presses, and dead lifts.  I was indeed strong, and explosive, but several others were even more so.  And more importantly, several others threw farther. My 500# overhead lift was a jerk behind the neck, done in 1975 or 76, at the Texas Athletic Club in Austin, TX.  I was very strong at this lift, as well as being quite proficient at timing the dip, drive, and split.  It is something of a trick lift, requiring some athleticism, and courage to get under a big weight.  I later did more work with push jerks and push presses, almost always behind the neck. Pete, my best power clean was 400#, and 410# from the hang.  Best back squat was a high bar, narrow stance 630#, done with heels up on a 2 X 4, knees wrapped with ace bandages.  Many of us squatted that way in the 1980's.  Best power snatch 308#, done with a very high catch.  Best incline 440#, front squat 550#  Never did much deadlifting, but did 630# around 1976. Mike Baab, that was the best bench press story I have ever heard.  Thanks for telling it. Hope to see many of you this season. Chief

Very impressive stuff. The most impressive lift I've heard of by a thrower not called Udo is a 520lb POWER clean (with straps) by Mike Stulce. Randy Barnes claims to have it on video.

Chief, (or anyone else who knows) how tall and heavy were you when you did your best lifts?

I love the dark side of Baab.  Let it out. 

Given the recent interest in BN Jerks, I thought I would bump this thread.  Besides, it also contains Baab's story of THE bench press set, which might be one of the most entertaining/inspirational posts ever.

Ummm...I just printed Baab's story and I think I am going to get it tatted on my chest...or sewn into the front of my underwear...or something...f***ing awesome. 

Anyone who has seen Mike really get after it...I mean, REALLY get after it...knows that this story is gospel.

Faced with something like that, you either power up, power down, or get out of the gym.

I completely forgot about this thread. Some very interesting information presented here. I'm still amazed at the numbers from Beyer, McGoldrick, Gunthor, Stulce, Timmerman etc. Does anyone have any video of these guys lifting? I've seen everything on youtube on Timmerman and Gunthor but would love to see some footage of the others mentioned in this thread.

Perhaps a Members Media section on the forum would be a good fit. What do you guys think?

Video of top javelin thrower Andreas Thorkildsen of Norway just missing 180 kg (396 lbs.) in the BN Jerk back in May 2006.  His PR was 170 kg (374 lbs.) at the time.  Not sure if it is better now (he was the 2008 Olympic Champion).  Not exactly Udo Beyer, but pretty good for a pure speed-strength guy weighing about 195 pounds at 6'3". 

http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/Blog/Poster/2006/5/1_Almost_a_new_pb.html - http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/ Blog/Poster/2006/5/1_Almost_a_new_pb.html

Here he is benching 180kg (396 lbs.) with a bounce but no chest pad:

http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/Blog/Poster/2006/4/25_New_pb_in_bench_press.html - http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/ Blog/Poster/2006/4/25_New_pb_in_bench_press.html

Missing a double with 170 kg (374 lbs.)

http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/Blog/Poster/2006/3/28_Training.html - http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/ Blog/Poster/2006/3/28_Training.html

And a bit of hurdle jumping:

http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/Blog/Poster/2006/6/27_Jumping.html - http://web.mac.com/a_thorkildsen/www.andreasthorkildsen.com/ Blog/Poster/2006/6/27_Jumping.html

Urban legends...?  I've told this story before but back in about 1990 I had the opportunity to be standing behind a world class shotputter at the state meet and asked what strength levels were required to throw the shot 65-feet.  She responded..." Well I ve always had a good bench but I'm proudest of my 402-lb push press"...if I remember correctly I thik I exclaimed " 402  "...3 or 4 times and to my delight I did 405-lbs the folllowing Monday even though I was supposed to be on sets of 4 that week...lol

Its AWESOME that Ramona Pagel  p.r. in the push-press motitvated me too lift heavier.

PART-2  Perhaps the Chief will verify or deny this one.  Again  if I remember correctly they were having a QUEST -Month ( where everyone in the gym tried for a p.r. at some point during the month) and I belive it was a behind the neck lift ( ? )   One of the more powerful body builders was up too the 390-400 lb mark and Tore Gustaffson walks in during a failed attempt.  His comment was somewhere along the lines of  " Thats not that heavy when you get too use your legs "     At some point he was asked too demonstrate the easiness of the lift and blew the weight up for a successful attempt.  

 When I re-related this story too Tore in person I asked his all time best at this lift and he said "  I had never done this lift before or after that day "... and that tells me BIG BALLS and world class strength levels with no warm up walking in the door.

So the old saying is still true....you never have too go very far too get your ass kicked...lol