Although this should be in the nonsense catagory

Electoral college keep the choice of presidents from being soley determined by the large cities or by the states with the largest cities, then all you have is a president kissing the @ss of the large population centers on east and west coast. Besides Kerry is a loser like Gore

Bravo Brent!!!

The electoral college is a structure that tries to balance the rights of the people and the rights of the states. The founding fathers worked hard to create such a balance in our system. Consider the elegance of our legislative branch with popular representation in the House and state representation in the Senate. Beautiful.

The fascist democratic pinheads who want to split the electoral votes in Colorado would scream bloody f#cking murder if there were an attempt to split electoral votes in California.

Pure CRAP!  Put the vote back in the hands of the people. Ryan, yeah I heard that and LOVE it!  Why should ALL votes automatically go to one candidate.

BTW....who the hell told the EC in each state who to vote for?  I think I saw in a handfull of states the popular vote was Kerry but the EC went to GW. Hummmmm.....

Brian,

  If the popular vote in a state was for Kerry then that state's electoral votes would go to Kerry. Simple as that. Kerry lost, very simple. Gore lost, also very simple. Changing the electoral college would not change the outcome of this election. President Bush won the popular vote. In fact, President Bush won a MAJORITY of the popular vote. Something that had not happened in 16 years (both Clinton terms were won with pluralities, Gore won the popular vote four years ago but also only with a plurality).

Think carefully about the last election. Neither candidate had a majority. One candidate had a miniscule lead over the other candidate. In other words, the people made no clear choice. So, the electoral college system kicks in and says "If the people can't make a clear choice, then we shall let the states decide." Perspicacity at its best. The vote IS in the hands of the people. On Tuesday the PEOPLE decided and they clearly chose the better man!

Most votes any president ever received!

You got to be happy about the voter turnout. What was the percentage?

Bush is also for drug testing in the Highland Games.

Yeah but Carlos...49% of America disagrees. Now that may not be something...until Bush needs their help.

I hope Dubya doesn't read this, he might think you are a bunch of home O's.

Good point Brian. Clearly it was a huge problem for Clinton that 51% of the population voted AGAINST him. <sarcasm mode off>

Honestly. That remark was beneath you. I'd expect drivel like that from a pinhead like Michael Moore but not from you.

Oh, he doesnt have a problem with guys in skirts gathering together, there just cant be any exchange of vows.

Sargent at Arms, Bush club

Personally, i feel that George Bush has not done a good job and he has been proven to be the least intelligent president we've ever had; infact, he has never vetoed one bill sent to him.  Im not saying that im for kerry, im just more so anti-bush.  Bush can't even give a good speech, I mean have you ever listened to him talk? If more americans were informed about his stats as pres. they would of voted different.  I guess we all have something in common with laura bush, we're all gettin screwed by her husband

Three percent of the electorate is not exactly a significant margin of victory, it may not be as miniscule as 2000, but still not exactly a mandate of "the people" thus implying that all, or even a significant majority approve.  As far as the electoral college goes it was expressly designed to keep the decision out of the hands of the people, in case they made "a mistake."  The "founding fathers" (Jefferson and Hamilton in particular) firmly believed in the virutes of Republican governments (the political structure not the political party) rather than Democratic ones.  And as far as the electoral college keeping the political decissions out of the hands of a few urban centers, that's hogwash.  Imagine the 2000 election was reversed, that Gore won by 5 electoral votes having picked up Nebraska.  Imagine that all the races in the states Gore won were decided by margins of five percent or less.  Now imagine that the states Bush won in he picked 75-80% winning by margins of 50% of the vote.  You could have had a situation in which one candidate wins the popular election by 7-8% (potentially more) but still loses in the electoral college, this system is anything but egalitarian. 

And as far as Maine goes it does split its votes, but not as a percentage of the total popular vote as Colorado proposed, each of four electoral votes is assigned to the winner of the popular election in the four congressional districts.  Essentially each district has one vote...

For the record John Kerry got the second most votes in history (about a million more than Regan in 84)

Lefty throwers unite...

Kado101 wrote: he has been proven to be the least intelligent president we've ever had

Got any evidence of this beyond the fact that you want to believe it? This has in fact been researched. Read the following if you want some information on the issue (this is well researched and he presents all of his sources):

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm - http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

It's over, the better man lost, time to move on. We in blue states, (who produce the vast majority of the wealth in this country and pay the most taxes) got soundly beaten by those in the red states (who receive the majority of the money from those taxes and complain about them). Us "liberal elite" city-slickers who were attacked
by foreign terrorists, got out-voted by the folks who're gung ho to fight a war in our name, and who still believe that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11.

Good thing I'm not bitter!

Gee Dave, I thought you didn't spin?

By the way, the BETTER MAN WON!!!

By the way, it's tough to find one of those so called blue states in this county by county map from the 2000 election (the current map is pretty similar)

I dont know how anyone can say Bush didnt do a good job.

  Do I agree with everything he does no, BUT This man stepped up and did what needed to be done. It seems like half of this country has forgotten about September 11.  Oh yeah remember that.  The big complaint is we have lost 1000 soldiers in this war.  WE LOST MORE ON 9/11.  Lets see what else did he do wrong oh yeah that nice guy Sadam.  How dare he take out a leader who tortured his own people.  Who let his sons torture and rape for fun. No one thinks he was responsible for 9/11 but are you nieve enough to think he didnt back it in some way. Im sure he was very upset when the planes hit. Can you believe the nerve of this president.  Doing what the UN has been threatening to do but didnt have the balls to do. You can say alot of negative things about bush but to say he did a bad job is rediculouse.  You can say he should have done this or he should have done that, but what would you or anybody else have done?  You dont know, no one could know!

I dont care how you voted or who you like better W. did a hell of a job Keeping this country together. Im glad to see him still in office.   

DC, U da man. Witness.

Carlos, read my mind!- lets see "Hannity's" new one!

I guess the Extra voter turn out wasnt just Democrats but Those defending Bush also.

Fricking impotent UN. We went in taking care of business while Saddam paid off France and Russia to keep us from following up on UN threats. I think Bill Clinton "Got away with everything he could" but would love to see him replace Kofi Annan.

I am very upset at the comments about the EC... it is the best system and has provern true every time..  sincerely the Coolege football BCS...    HAHAHAHAHA  that is funny  

Actually I would have to agree with those of superior intellect above that GW whoooooooped Kerry Mushugina(sp)...  millions of votes..  In our games that would be like

Me talking all year about how I hated Vierras form and that his deciding to go to the games he usually goes to and missing the Worlds was a dis-service to the highland games and was going to lead to our games not being viewed by other sports as ligitimate(similar to Kerry being so worried about our world image and what the French and Germans think)  I would talk and second guess Vierra's decisions and how he trained for his events.  Then we get a chance to throw against eachother and Vierra wins all of the events in actual distance but I have better form or get Bruce Springsteeeeeen to sing a song for me that I should get some sort of credit.  Either way EC or popular vote GW won...  I would say that 4+ mill  would be a mandate that moral issues and security are important and it is ok to actually not be the best speaker, or debator but a leader who actually cares about his family and country over anger and self.

My 2 cents

Good work on the Shakespeare McBain...

Raw numbers are irrelevent, it's percentages that matter...3.X% is not much...

Evidently being smart now means believing everything that the politcal rhetoricians shove down your throat and never thinking for yourself...keep waving those flags

I didn't vote for Bush. BECAUSE THAT P R I C K bin Laden is still Running around, when his head should be on the end of a Pigs D I C K. 3 years and nothing. He didn't finish the job, neither did his father. As far as I'm concerned we swatted a hornets nest. 

Blind patriotism are you kidding?

Ok sept 11TH tell me when W was standing on top of the fallen towers swearing to bring those responcible to justice you where not watching it on tv and cheering for everything that man had to say.  If you say you didnt your a liar.   As for Bin Laden, Is it that easy to find 1 single man when he is being hid by countrys that are loyal to him?  I guess W. sucks because we havnt found Whitey Buldger to right?  As for a divided country For two yearas after the towers fell this country was as unified as it ever has been.  There was a flag on every car, a ribbon on every tree and the anthem was put on every station at least once a day. So what changed?  Oh yeah the  democrats needed to find a way to defeat W. so they look back and pick apart every thing this guy did and played monday morning quarter back and came up with all theese great ideas on what should have been done.  Again I dont agree with all of the things he has done but give the guy credit.  He has the best people he could advising him.  He holds true to his word and to what he thinks is wright.  After all is that not what you want from a leader.  You may not agree with every thing he does but at least you can take comfort in knowing he will do what he thinks is right. 

Last point We have not had another attack in this country because of the defences set up buy this horrible president.  Not to mention that he has kept those bastards running so hard they havnt had time to attack us.  We took the fight to them instead of them bringing it to us.  So I will wave my flagh, I will praise the troops who are kicking *ss over there, and I think all you pissed off people need to get back behind this country and what it stands for.  GOD BLESS THE USA!

My two cents

I guess this is why bars dont allow politics People get a little heated up.  So who is starting the religiouse banter?  

David

I'm willing to bet that if you stuck your head out of NYC your would find that in fact more wealth is created in the fly over county; it is just traded and exploited in the larger population centers.  This is just a simple matter of real estate.  Plus there is a significant population of walfare "achievers" in the metropolitan centers.  As far as tax dollars, exactly how much did the "un-informed majority" give to New York after 9-11?  Take that figure and add in all of the personal contributions of time, equipment and money and you have a hell of a lot of help.

Second B*tch: if you can provide me written of audio evidence that ANYONE involved in policy making ever said that Saddam (dip-shit) Hussein had a direct link to 9-11, I will apologize.  No one ever presented that case, it was a spin job from the left and the press. 

I have extreme respect for every Devil Dog, Soldier, Airman and Salior fighting to make the WORLD a more free and safer place.  I have spent enough time (while in the Corps) in the mid-east and africa dealing with assholes like Saddam and Ossama, GOD BLESS our Service personnel!

Only through victory can peace prevail!

First of all I did NOT say Saddam was directly involved If you pull your head out of your butt and read all the words (Ill try to use smaller ones next time so you can keep up) I wrote that to think that he did not have somthing to do with the backing of the terorists then you are a fool, And if you remember back he was all smiles after the attack.

Second Who said anything about taxes?  My comments were purly on the performance of W. And how hw dealt with a terrible situation and unified this country.  So I dont know who you are calling a B*itch.  If you are unable to debate like a big boy and stop the very intelectual name calling go back to the cartoon sites on the web and let the big people talk.  My comments in this forem have not been demo. or repub. based.  the comments were made the pres. did a "bad job" and my point was for a new president to step up and react in the ways that he did is commendable.

DAVE CHENEY wrote: First of all...

Dave, he wasn't responding to you.

-Wayne

Mr. Cheney

I was not responding to you, I read your post and agree with you.  Look up the page and read Dave Barron's post.  As to the name calling acusation, I meant it as a way of stating "my second problem with your (Barron's) post".

I believe that political discourse is what makes this the greatest country in the world. 

Sorry, for the mis-understanding

So I can't say that Bush hasn't done a good job huh...

he's the second worst president ever in terms of environmental policy... he claims that the air and water have gotten better under his administration, but that's all a result of the continuing effects of the Clean Air and Clean Water acts that he has since rolled back...only Regan was worse on the environment having appointed James Watt as Secretary of the Interior who said that we didn't need to protect the environment because "I don't know know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns"... he pulled out of the Kyoto accords and refused to negotiate more stringent air quality regulations...

he pushed the No Child Left Behind Act through congress, a policy which was clearly written by politicians and not teachers... this act connects school funding with performance on standardized tests, cutting money to schools which under-perform... clearly, cutting funding to schools that are already struggling on these tests is not the way to improve performance... additionally, it is a well established fact that standardized tests are not "standard" as they inevitably display cultural biases... N.C.L.B. makes no concessions for the teaching of writing or critical thinking skills, it merely test performance on multiple choice tests, it cripples teachers and academic decision makers...I've not met a single teacher that's in favor of it...

thirdly, Bush invaded a sovereign nation in order to follow through an a family grudge and to secure oil reserves... the rationale for going to war in Iraq was based on lies, pure and simple... Bush accused Kerry of being a flip-flopper yet he took us to war under the pretense of securing weapons of mass destruction, now the rationale that he gives is about removing Sadam from power... I had no problem with going to war against those that had a clear connection to the terrorist activities, and I don't think for a second that Sadam was a good leader or "deserved" to be in power...but lying and invading a sovereign nation under false pretenses is not okay with me... neither is goign to war for oil, nor occupying a sovereign naiton

Yes, I can say that Bush didn't do a good job

So is this the stuff from Farenheit 9/11??????

The Shakespeare was great. Now you just need to follow it up with Neville Chamberlin's Peace in Our Time speech. That would be perfect.

Hoerricks is dead on about the Kyoto accords.

And now my pet peeve. "This war is about oil" Although the people that drag this old rag out every few minutes may be communists, the international trade system is a free-market. That means that we buy oil. Why would we go to war only to continue buying oil? The statement is so retarded I can hardly believe people continue to repeat it. If we were really going to go to war for oil it would be a lot cheaper and faster to invade Mexico and Venezuela (source of the vast majority of our foreign oil imports). What kind of nitwit could think we would go halfway across the world to get what is right next door.

That one is almost as good as "taxing the rich corporations". You can't tax corporations, they pass those costs on to the consumers. People need to grow up and read a good book on economics, it would be a better use of your money than lining the pockets of a fat moron like Michael Moore.

The Soviet Union did not lack for resources, but was in fact one of the most richly endowed nations on earth. What it lacked was an economic system that made efficient use of scarce resources. Because Soviet enterprises were not under the same financial constraints as capitalist enterprises… they were not forced to economize - that is, to treat these resources as both scarce and valuable in alternative uses."

Socialism Kills!

McBain1975 wrote: Oh, one last thing...as a member of the media, I can assure you, liberal media is a false-hood created by the right wing. We are owned by corporations, right leaning corporations. There are very few liberals left in the media, as you can see by the pass we gave Bush on the many, many problems he has caused.. I would suggest you stop listening to Rush about how the media is so evil, when even he knows the media is conservative now. Actually, just don't listen to that drug addict, nothing he says is really factual anyways.

Bwahahahaha! No liberal media? Right wing conspiracy? Are you Hilary Clinton? Next thing you'll be telling me about the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy right? The ad hominem attack at the end was perfect, did you learn that in liberal media school?

I don't know what your media credentials are but I do know a bit about Bernard Goldberg's achievements in the media. He disagrees with you, as do several other media and political notables whose credentials and accomplishments are rock solid. Oh yeah, a number of studies also disagree with you. Can you cite a single study (independent or otherwise) that validates your point of view on this? Claiming that the media isn't liberal is like claiming that universities aren't liberal.

Can't believe I'm jumping back into this pissing match.

Carlos is right. Is the media liberal? Yes. And that's good.

Anyone who thinks universities and the print media (not so much the infotainment that is TV and talk radio "news") isn't "liberal" is as misguided as anyone who doesn't think there's a right-wing conspiracy. (There's a left-wing conspiracy too ya know).

But here's the thing: the media SHOULD be liberal, and so should universities and classrooms - at least in the traditional sense of "free" and "open-minded". The word "liberal" derives from the word "free", and liberals of all stripes tend to see themselves as friends of freedom, particularly freedom from the shackles of tradition. I believe it's the role of a free media, and of places of eduaction, to question tradition and the status quo.

Mike,

  No democratic presidential candidate has won a majority of the popular vote since LBJ in 1964. Fact is, words like 'mandate' are just devices that are used to keep the spin doctors spinning. Did Clinton have a mandate with either of his 49% victories? Did Kennedy really have a mandate in '60 with 49.7% of the popular vote to Nixon's 49.5% of the popular vote? Does President Bush have a mandate with his 51% victory? Who f*cking cares? It's all just talk and only actions really matter here.

In my personal opinion you can't really judge a president until he's been out of office for a while. Then you can look back with more complete information and size up their accomplishments. In the last forty or so years: Kennedy/LBJ for civil rights, Nixon for opening up China, Reagan for winning the Cold War, and Clinton for ending welfare (yes, even though I am a staunch Republican I give credit where credit is due). Carter accomplished nothing and will go down as the worst president in the history of these United States. Ten years from now we get to see what history says about President Bush.

 well said

lets get past our differences and argue about more inportant things like spinning wob or legit exta throws Its been fun

That Vulcan proverb can now be extended to "only Clinton could end welfare." Imagine what fertile fields of spin and bullsh*t would have been opened had a Republican tried to end welfare. He would be called racist, bigot and worse. Clinton does it and the liberal media christen him "America's First Black President". Classic!

Honest truth is, things like that are what make our system so wonderful. God Bless this country and everyone in it. This is the best place on earth!!!!

I find it humorous that people take a name like Nazi and throw it around as if it should be used to describe those who have different opinions, not saved for those who take innocent lifes(abortion) I say if we are going to call others names we should use them correctly.  I do not know Imus very well but would doubt that he actually had any first hand Nazi experience to make such assumptions. 

I would say the closest truth lies between the 2 strong sides with compassion for those who cannot provide for themsleves being the most important ones invloved.  It is the duty of those who have much to care for those who can not have much..( not for free loaders, but those who really can't make it on their own) and I say that if there is a party who most clearly takes on issues that effect that part of our world then they will win as it is Correct to do so.  If it were a democrat then great(democrats of old used to care, and know the people in rural areas) but this time it is the Republican party that is listening the best to what all people have to say. 

I find it amazing that those who trumpet the call of liberalism and call it freedom are the most intolerant of those who have different views.  If you are a real American then what is best for America now and in the future should be most important not the what does the world think mentallity.

Mike,

  The rumor I heard was that the person who wants out the most is John Ashcroft. Mel Martinez left a while ago and just picked up a senate seat in Florida. Not sure about the others although there are rumors. I know Condy Rice wants to be NFL commissioner. I think she would be an awesome NFL commissioner. Not much use in her staying in the government with the 150K federal salary cap, she'd be making many times that in academia or anywhere else she wanted to work.

Gee McBain, that quote sounds like John Kerry's whole campaign strategy. I guess it didn't work for him because he isn't as smart as Goering, even though he is every bit the fascist.

Woody,

  Still miss having you out there on the field. Hope to see you at Woodland in the Spring.

How will any of this BS help me throw the HWD ?

Coach Mac I have been able to improve my 28 from 48 to 60 this year but when I try the 56 I’m out of control. If I do 1 spin can do about 26ft but when I try 2 I can’t do Sh*t

Stop BSing and get back to Throwing!!!!!

Clayton

G-man wrote: How will any of this BS help me throw the HWD ? Coach Mac I have been able to improve my 28 from 48 to 60 this year but when I try the 56 I’m out of control. If I do 1 spin can do about 26ft but when I try 2 I can’t do Sh*t Stop BSing and get back to Throwing!!!!!   Clayton

John Kerry has "a plan" to help you throw the HWFD farther. Go to his web site for details.

This thread must Die!!!!!

I am only posting as I know Mcbain will have to look and see what the latest post was..  Sorry Mcbain but it is too funny....

We should rename this as the Car or Train wrek...because you dont' want to but you just have to look...

Janet Reno

"Reno Style"

Bill Clinton was always known to like a good toss  

Jack Kemp, hands down.

I can't even believe that drunken toad Teddy Kennedy came up in this thread. The only heavy thing he ever threw was a car, into a river, with his date in it.

Good call on ol' teddy boy.

Norman Swartzkauff

Arnold Swartzeneger

MarkJodyAudrey wrote: McBain1975 wrote: You can gloat all you want, but the gloating will stop when the Republican Decency Troopers burst through your door to end whatever indecent act they deem you must be doing — based on a "tip" from a fellow citizen. And then, I will be laughing my damn head off at you — probably from the next jail cell. This is paranoia run amuck.

Paranoia isn't even the proper word.  Holy Crap-n-crap!  I think McBain is actually Oliver Stone in disguise!  I think someone has been messing with their thorazyne drip again!  What makes you think the Republicans are responsible for your intense paranoid delusions Mr McBain?---The Highlander aka your "fellow citizen"

Mmmmm, alcohol!

Hey McBain, we're just bustin' you chops, no harm meant, at least from me.  Believe me, I'm a conspiracy nut, so I'd be the last person to be seriously pointing a finger!