2.) Yes I lift during season. I had good success with a modified westside template towards the end of last years season. 1 ME movement + 1 opposite DE movement x twice/wk. So, heavy squats + speed deads & lower assistance for workout 1. heavy overhead + speed bench & upper assistance for workout 2. The next week is the opposite. I also throw 3-4x/week. Every once in a while I'll cut a throwing day and do some strongman events just because they're fun and help with conditioning.

 

I'm new to all this, but that's my $.02.

First, during the season, you should prioritize throwing practice.  So if you are going to train 4x a week, at least two should be generally be throwing sessions, leaving one or preferably two sessions for lifting. Two lifting sessions and three throwing sessions would be ideal if you have the time and energy.  I think it is VERY important to continue lifting at least once a week, and preferably two relatively brief sessions, hitting whatever you consider each of the major "in season" lifts once each week.  Something very roughly like Hang Snatch and Front Squats on Monday and Hang Cleans and Push Presses (or some kind of bench press) on Thursday.  Or maybe a lower body session on Monday and an upper body session on Wednesday.  Whatever.

 

I know how I like to train, and I know how my body responds to different types of training. Everyone is different in that sense. So why reinvent the wheel or follow suit to something only to be let down with poor results because you didn't enjoy it and therefore didn't put the effort in or your body didn't respond as well as you thought it would? Periodization is a proven winner. Block training is proven. 5x5 has been proven, Conjugate is proven.. IMO, it all comes down to what you enjoy. I don't feel any is better than the other, it is what you put into it. Andy said he had trained a specific way for years and this past off-season he went to a block protocol and his body responded very well. Guess it what time to switch things up.

 

I practiced oly movements all last year because I was told they would make me a better thrower. I don't feel they helped me one bit. I enjoy doing them, but they aren't a primary focus like before. I got more out of speed training with squats, deads, incline bench and various jumping movements.

 

I like to feel heavy weight in my hands and on my back. That's why the conjugate method works well for me. If I'm feeling too beat up for a max effort (like I will be next week after that ME rack pull yesterday), I'll drop the weight down and do 3s or 5s... the week after is a deload so I'll come in strong the next week.

 

For ME, the difference between lifting like a thrower vs not is how many times I'm in the gym. As a lower level thrower working his way up the ranks, you NEED to throw. I saw great improvement when I dropped to 2x/week in the gym and 3-4x/week throwing. I would prefer to lift 3x/week, but I just can't recover and I have to sacrifice a throwing day.

 

In the end, like Mr Smith tells everyone, there's no specific lifts in the gym that will make you throw farther. You've got to just go throw.

 

From what I can see, you're balls strong, so that's always going to be your base. You said you're fairly new to the games, right? So you need some throws under your belt.

 

My advice (for what it's worth) on what needs to change in-season? Take an honest look at your program and think "What do I HAVE to do to stay strong? What do I HAVE to do to keep from falling apart?" Get rid of EVERYTHING else. Then use the extra recovery to throw. Not like 12389723409 throw sessions or anything, but start logging some field time. Work one thing at a time in each event. Like "long arms" or "head out of the way" in the hammer, low point in the weight, etc.

 

But stay strong, stay fast and stay confident in your power.

 

I may be giving kind of opposing advices from a lot of the guys on here, but I still think for someone NOT coming from a throws background going "all in" for olifts, speed work only and field, field, field does not necessarily translate into a solid season.

 

Lots of ways to skin a cat. And there's always the Russian approach to the MiG-29: if you put enough thrust behind ANYTHING, it'll fly fast.

 

Hell, it's been working for Craig for like a decade

Perfect answer.

Short story.  I know a guy who is close to Reese Hoffa and his coach Don Babbit.  Their idea is precisely as outlined above - what is the MINIMUM amount of work and "stuff" I HAVE to do/have to achieve my goals at this point?  They determined that all Reese (a top-class shot putter) really needed in terms of equipment in addition to a couple of shots and a throwing circle was a 500+ lb Olympic set, a power rack, lifting platform, good adjustable bench, a couple of medballs, and a short hill to run sprints on.  That's it, for one of the best shot putters in the world.  Just something to think about if your focus is throwing.

I would add to Sean's post that what it means to "train like a thrower" to me, in addition to actually throwing and developing one's throwing technique, is recognizing that ultimately the strength you develop has to be transferable to throwing for it to be useful, and doing whatever works for you to achieve that goal.  We have had this discussion before a few times, but I stand by my opinion that ultimately the physical aspect of throwing is about "power" and "Rate of Force Development", not simply "strength".  

Again, this does not mean that being "strong" is not helpful, merely that any strength you cannot generate extremely quickly is useless on the throwing field.  There are different ways of training for this for sure, but your max squat or max deadlift ON ITS OWN is not going to tell you too much about how far you are going to throw, particularly in the lighter events.  A big deadlift is going to be extremely helpful, but not sufficient, when it comes to turning a Pro caber or performing a Standing WFH with the 56, but it is going to do very little for your Open Stone etc.  This was the point of the "Power Ratio tests" and "Triathlon Tests" some of us did a couple of years ago (and have dropped by the wayside unfortunately).  

Another thing to remember when considering in-season training is that max strength and max speed and explosiveness (much less technical development) tend NOT to occur at the same time.  So it makes sense to get as strong as possible over the winter and then work on getting faster, more explosive, and more dynamic during the Spring and Summer, while losing as little strength as possible.  This can also been done effectively through Block Training.  I believe this position is well-established and non-controversial, but we will see.

This has come up before, but what do you really mean by this, especially in relation to my rather general comments?  The differences between HG and say a Shot Putter are basically as follows.

HG have (1) more events, which vary in technical demands and weight of the implements, and (2) on average the implements used in HG are quite a bit heavier than the shot.  

The first point larger means that one either needs to practice more often or accept relatively less polished technique.  More significantly, it means that throwing practice is often more physically demanding.  For those that actually do practice the events diligently, this actually means that less time or at least less energy is available for lifting and/or recuperation.  

The second point entails somewhat longer "amortization times" or "ground contact times", i.e. a bit less speed and explosiveness, are involved in some of the HG events and arguably a bit more strength is required.  However, in reality, all top shot putters are strong enough by Pro HG standards, especially given their relative speed and explosiveness.  Given a reasonable amount of technical training (obviously), how do you think  athletes like Udo Beyer, Werner Gunthor, Randy Barnes, or "even" Ulf Timmermann would perform in the HG without changing the physical training at all.  They are big, very strong, and very explosive.  What would they need to change, other than practicing several of the events???

 

It only takes the first event to make them realize how wrong they were, but at this point I will take what I can get.

 

If you're truly going to utilize this approach, you have to fake an injury on the first throw and then spend the rest of the day viciously heckling the other throwers. CHAD and Sean can offer pointers on the verbal abuse.

 

I am sorry, but I do not understand what you mean, or how it is responsive to either of my posts.

"A survival standpoint" would indicate that a top HG Pro who does a lot of Games would likely both lift and practice less often during the season than a comparable shot putter.  This is clear.  Other than that, I am at a loss.

Excellent. 

Note to self: Find "Verbal Abuse Training Forums."

CHAD wrote: That may not yield you the results you desire.  Or it might.   Chances are there's an upcharge for that.

 

It's just funnier when you get to bust on a guy who outthrows everything you do by 50%. ('sup, Betz!)

Some random tips about practicing

1. Train the lighter implements more often.  They don't beat you up as much and depend more on technique.

2. Stones, Weights, and Hammers should take up most of the time since there are sometimes two of each of them at some comps and they are dependant most on technique.

3. Obviously practice your weak events more often.

4. When practicing a heavier event,  after your last throw, take three throws with the lighter implement.  This will get you ready for a games and sometimes you don't get many warm-ups.

5. I practice with a 4 foot trig instead of a 4.5 foot trig.  This helps you with not being "trig-phobic" at games and makes you sprint straight through the throw more.  Always use a trig of some sort.

6. Do some practices where you take three warm-up type throws and then take 3 competition throws and measure them.  This emulates a games.  Especially in the hammer, take a few winds and then go to it.  Need a big throw when it counts.

7. If you don't have a games that week, go out and throw for 3+ hours on a Saturday or Sunday.  Throw the caber and wob and sheaf too.   Learned this one from Mike Smith.  It gives you the specific conditioning to handle games.

 

 

 

I like to throw stones monday, hammers wednesday and weights friday. Then every other saturday or so I'll throw for about 3 hours, hitting everything I can including sheaf and wob. I don't have a caber to practice with at the moment, but about once a month I train with someone who does so that's covered.

I rarely throw a heavy stone. Maybe once a month. I typically take all my braemar throws with the 16# stone because I can get more tosses in before fatigue sets in. I don't throw heavy hammer in practice either. I've got too many technical issues I need to address at this time and the heavy hammer isn't going to do it for me. Once I get better technically, I'll add in heavy hammer and I'll even add additional weight.

 

For WFD, I throw heavy a lot. 20-30times per week. The timing is so much different between LWFD and HWFD that they're almost 2 separate events, however, if I can hit the positions with the heavy, it only takes me 1-2 practices to get my timing back with the light (if I haven't practiced with it in a while). Once I'm hitting good positions and throwing solid numbers very consistently then I'll turn the heavy down and increase the light. I suspect 2-3 more weeks of this and I'll probably do just that to prepare for the phoenix games. Once my tech is dialed in on the HWFD, I'll throw LWFD primarily. I did this last year before I discovered a lot of technical issues with my throws.

 

 

I especially like Betz's advice about the 4' trig, something I need to implement into my training.

 

 

You can say helpful things in competition like "Watch those foul lines." and then watch the Bomb Squad in action

hahahahahahahaha..

 

this has happened to me.