Since the beginning of the season, I have had numerous conversations with with fellow athletes regarding the current state of drug use in the HG.  It seems that many people have an opinion about what, who, when, right, wrong, etc...  I want to take this opportunity to make a statement to the up and coming athletes of all levels in our beloved sport.  When I began in this sport in the mid 90's, the athletes of that time (R.V., AGunn, FBreb, PFer, KPauli, etc..) all expressed the same belief that performance enhancing drugs had no place in the HG.  This was reinforced with testing all over Scotland and numerous spots in the US.  If you were caught using drugs you were shunned and placed in exile.  Whether you agreed with the treatment or not, it certainly provided everyone with the clearly understood rule that drugs were not acceptable in this sport.  This didn't prevent everyone from using drugs, just as the death penalty doesn't prevent murder.  What it did do is send a clear message about expectation and acceptance.  Times certainly have changed.  The large majority of athletes I have spoken with agree that this expectation has become extremely blurry, at best.  Many of us believe there are individuals in our sport, who for some reason have decided to use drugs.  As I have stated, there have always been these people.  The problem as I see it, is that the lack of a clear expectation that drugs are not ok, clouds the issue for anyone in this sport without this background knowledge.  So, we have a sport that virtually doesn't drug test, other than the SGA and IHGF, no known expectation that we be CLEAN, and athletes who use the clause, "They all do it.  How else could they throw like that?".  This sets up the sport for people to do whatever they want and think that it is ok.  I would like to apologize to the "Legends" of the sport for being asleep at the wheel and not doing my part to set the record straight.  As a result, let me say this: Whether you make the personal choice to use drugs to compete in the HG is your decision but it is not ok or acceptable by the standards of those who have made this sport what it is today.  Nor is it acceptable to me.  We all have an obligation to set an example for our families and others.  People, big and small, admire us for what we do.  If you are currently using drugs and make a commitment to "get clean", I applaud you.  If you choose to continue using, do it without using other athletes as your justification.  Most of us have worked hard, drug free and accomplished a lot.  Know that life is much bigger than the HG, but all that you do now speaks to who you are and what you will become.  Some of you will be annoyed with this post and the texting and emails will begin to buzz, but if it truly bothers you, you need to question why????

HB3

Highland Games Athlete

PS: Steve C.- Please accept my apology for bringing this up during this time but it needed to be said. 

hbaileyIII wrote: Know that life is much bigger than the HG, but all that you do now speaks to who you are and what you will become.

There’s never been a truer statement…well said HB  We, the IHGF are working diligently to ensure that our sport, in the most part, remains clean.  I must say though, if athletes are taking drugs in this sport, man their priorities and minds are severally screwed up…badly

Completely agree with HBIII here. Two points.

• The economics of the sport make it difficult to pay for expensive drug tests which limits the regularity of a drug testing program. That is unfortunate, but true.
• When someone tests positive there must be a consequence. That means stripping them of titles they won after testing positive. If there is no consequence, what is the point in testing for, or even disallowing, drug use?

hbaileyIII wrote: We all know there are individuals in our sport, who for some reason have decided to use drugs.

I definitely do not KNOW this.  I must be rooming with the wrong athletes, lol.

Alan H wrote: "We're throwing rocks and sticks. Get over it."

Craig,

Noted and corrected!

Glad to see this support and outspokeness on the subject. Anyone confused or unclear on the issue has only to note that no sport approves illegal PEDs. Its a pretty clear sign that if you cant talk openly about doing it and it's illegal it shouldnt be done (or stay home and do it and stay out of the sport) Most people understand it dishonors youself, your competitors and the sport.

Also lack of vigorous enforcement doesnt not constitute endorsement.

As long as Smithwicks, Glenlivet and Copenhagen are never banned I will be good to go.

No room for Vitamin S in my training.  It's a cheaters path is what I've always felt. 

Good post HBIII.

I felt guilty for using a belt when I lifted the Dinnie stones, I can't imagine how I'd feel on something stronger.

It's a hobby and a game. I trained with a crew that I always assumed was clean as I was clean. Then in talking with many of them I realized that I was one of the few that was clean. Some guys competed in PL, some in strongman and some didn't compete at all but still used. Even the weakest among us was using. It's a sad fact that there will always be people using for whatever reason. The common trend with them all was that it was okay, everyone did it, or it wasn't a big deal. Until people make it a big deal, those attitudes will continue. So, it's cool that someone of this stature speaks up.

Isn't this more of a money question? 

BigScot50,

Thanks for your honesty and confirmation to the negative side of using.  I would have to imagine that not using after personally seeing the considerable "assistance" PED's give you must be even more difficult than never using at all. 

Ryan Vierra wrote: hbaileyIII wrote: Know that life is much bigger than the HG, but all that you do now speaks to who you are and what you will become.    if athletes are taking drugs in this sport, man their priorities and minds are severally screwed up…badly

I like these two statements.

Duncan McCallum wrote: Isn't this more of a money question?

How so?

I figure if someone would spend their time and energy on eating right and focusing on what's best instead of trying to get away with using PED's they would have less stress and be more effective in their HG training. 

Rob,

What I mean is: Is this more a question about PED-abusers throwing bigger numbers as a result of better living through chemistry and, as a result, garnering invites to bigger Games with bigger payouts...?

Or, is it more of an appeal to the sportsmanship and honor of the participants in the face of a sport with little or no oversight from a singular governing body with some kind of enforcement authority?

I remember hearing a former T&F guy basicly saying it made no sense to juice if you weren't already within 10% of a world record.  I really don't think that not doing drugs is what kept me from winning Worlds, especially since I lost to two of the cleanest guys around (Vierra and Aitken). For me, there was always something else I could/should have been doing (more practice, more lifting, following an actual routine etc) that I couldn't justify using PEDs, even if I'd been willing to try them (or been able to find them). 

I honestly don't know who's clean and who's dirty (if anybody). I tend to assume the best of everyone. There's a long list of guys in this sport who've been committed to competing drug free and have routinely condemned PEDs.  It's continuing today with HB, Sean, McKim etc., some of the most visable guys in the sport. That's probably the most important thing we can do, to set the tone as athletes and to set an example for newer athletes from the top.

Bravo.

I don't know if anyone here has heard of the mulitple world record holder powerlifter Dan Austin.  The guy is a little fire plug and is currently an assistant strength and conditioning coach at the Univ of So. Carolina. Before that he was the head S&C coach at my alma mater of Oklahoma State.

I was speaking with him on PED's in sports a few years back and his point of view which I adopted is that we compete in very obscure sports HG, PLing and Strongman why put your body at risk for something that is obscure. 

Enjoy the sport for what it is.  Be the best YOU can be.  That's why I don't lift in gear and use minimal equipment when lifting (wrist wraps and straps is about all I don't even use a belt)  I am a purist at heart if I can never throw the number that the pros or the top A's can so be it, it wasn't meant to be.  Not that I won't work hard and try. 

I got other stuff to spend my money on rather than spending it on trying to cheat the system. 

Craig I am sure this topic has been covered ad nauseam as you said above but it's good for conversation. 

Duncan I would rather be clean and have a clear conscious than get invited to one of the "TOP" games.  I'll go as a spectator and shag weights if I want to be involved If I have to.

But to each their own.  I don't judge.  If someone wants to use PED's so be it.  I have been lifting off and on. More off than on  since the late 80's and have seen the tell tale signs of what abusers look like.  So yeah there are juicer's out there.  I just like to see when a nutural throttles them in a game. 

C. Smith wrote: Duncan is saying that with regards to testing I believe.  And yes, that along with the logistical and legal concerns (as Carlos mentioned a couple above).  But we've been over this ad nauseam, feel free to search.

If it costs only a couple hundred for a test, I don't see the cost as an issue.  As long as the athlete signs the form before competing, aren't they saying that they agree to the terms, as far the legal part of it.  I'm definitely not a lawyer so I may be off base.  If its a big venue like the Celtic, Pleasanton, or Loon Mountain, they could just say if you test positive you can't be invited back, and forfeit the prize money.  Its probably too complicated to have them banned from all games or athletic endeavors.

If I am ADing our small Pro Games, and want to do drug testing, that's one less Pro I can invite.

Would you guys be willing to forego prize $, pay your own travel and accomodations to compete against a field that is tested? Because I can make that happen here.

Do you think I will be able to field 5 Pros ranked in the top 15 because they can say they competed at the "cleanest" Games, but maybe it cost them money to be there? Not stirring the pot here (well, not *just* stirring the pot), genuine question.

And yes, I know Ams do this all the time, I do too. I'm sure some Pros wind up out of pocket a bit at some Games too.

@ Jeff Ingram, At a small pro games no. I could care less. But for the big ones yes. Would be more than happy to give half of my winnings to testing. I do this sport cause I love it, not for the money.

@RStewart

Stop with the tweet tags...poozer

... and yet, only half your winnings?

That's not a bad thing Ryan, but despite the love (I don't question it) there's only so much $ to go around. I doubt there'd be a lot of support to having far fewer paying Games in order to present an image of tested cleanliness.

How about instead of testing, we judge ourselves according to our own standards of integrity, and if we need to judge the next man we do it according to the way he treats us?

Just a thought. In the meantime, I will devote the meagre $ at my disposal to trying to put the best throwers on the field, because that's what the crowd wants to see (and me too).

If they had Wheaties+ for breakfast then that's on them to deal with.

Why not test everyone headed to Celtic two weeks before the event?

Want to end the discussion?  That's how.  Test everyone and let the results speak for themselves.  It is not going to be cheap, that's for sure...but consider that money an investment in the legitmacy and legacy of the Games.

Jones gets tested and the results are clean...good to go.  Jones gets tested and the results are indicative of PED abuse...Jones is done at Celtic.  As a matter of fact, Jones is probably done everywhere the way news travels in this community.

Test everyone or don't test.  Issues like this demand transparency.

But that's just my opinion...I'm not getting into Celtic without a paid admission!

@ Duncan, eat me.. LOL.

Jeff I say half cause thats all that it would take at a big games. They could still pay for hotel and air. But your right, Put the entertainment on the field for the small games. The crowd would rather see 5 KOs than 10 Valenti's.

@ Duncan, now your getting it.

HB, great post.

I am sorry its turned back into this.

Respect, responsibility and preservation are the foundation of this discussion.  The way I look at this drug issue is that it’s our responsibility as athletes and AD’s to preserve the history of those athletes who have came before us, and who have competed in our sport without the use of drugs, and who have laid the foundation so that we can do what we love, honor and RESPECT!

Bam-Bam thats a good dead horse...lol

Prevail:

That is the point.  I feel as though it was once understood that using was wrong and not accepted by any games.  All the athletes knew this whether those chose to use or not.  It seems that now that line is no longer clear and it is the responsibility of the vets to make sure this is understood.  As Ryan V. stated, we have a responsibility to those who threw clean before us and a duty to help those who will throw after us.

Basically, Duncan has the right of it. Although if you know you're going to be tested on 'X' date, it's not too hard to plan for that either.

But testing isn't "just a couple hundred". I mean if you take your own samples and send them in? Sure. But then you open yourself up to all kinds of "sample was tampered with" or "might have been contaminated in transport", etc etc.

For WADA testing, it costs 5 large just to register your games or association. Then if you want the official random testing, you've got to pay for the guys to come out, pay for their lodging and food and pay for the tests. For a random sample of 30 guys, you're looking at another 5-6 grand, all told.

So 10k, just like that. I think 99% of games have maybe about half that for a budget for the heavies, on a good day. Or around here, a whole lot less than that. So maybe the big ones, the world or national level championships can handle it, but most can't. But maybe that's all that need to be tested anyway.

In any case, as soon as PEDs stop working, people will stop using them. Beyond that, since the invention of competition, people have been looking for an edge, from chewing cocao leaves to jacking enough test to kill a guy. It's not going anywhere and it's an individual choice.

Seeing as noone's getting a Nike sponsorship by crossdressing and throwing scrap metal around, I don't see why people would bother taking it THAT seriously, but hey, your body, your call.

You want to know a REAL problem in our sport? Too many ATHLETES and not enough GAMERS. You know who the athletes are. The guys who show up 30 minutes before first throw to warm up, don't talk to anyone below their level, don't help out for a single minute on the field and are gone 5 minutes after awards.

Gamers help set up, tear down, scorekeep, assist with anything they can and try to make the ADs life a little easier.

Some games have the volunteer base that you can slack from time to time, but more don't. And still, these guys are there.

You know who you are.

As a relatively new thrower I am heartened at this discussion thread.  You pro's and excellent throwers (like Abbott) set the tone for the rest of us.

Part of the answer to HB3's dilemna is written here. Your overt declaration of being PED free needs to move beyond this forum to the field. Don't underestimate the power of peer pressure.

Thanks HB3 for starting this. I have a new level of respect for all of you.

Ryan Vierra wrote: Respect, responsibility and preservation are the foundation of this discussion.

I hesitate to post this here because the above sums up the basis of this tread. However, this is somewhat different view of PED.

Heavy athletics is celebration of Scottish (and to a lesser extent other Celtic) cultures. Because of this, the basis of the rules that govern this activity is respect, responsibility, and  sportsmanship.  This comes from not squatting on you fellow clansman.   Because of this, the rules have holes big enough for a Mack truck to drive.

hbaileyIII wrote: What it did do is send a clear message about expectation and acceptance.  Times certainly have changed.  The large majority of athletes I have spoken with agree that this expectation has become extremely blurry, at best.

Could part of the change-over-time be related back to the nature of and the popularity of Heavy Athletics? 

1. Background of those Contestants - the background is more diverse, drawing people from other strength and throwing sports as well as those with Celtic Heritage -- a very good thing.   However, those from other sports bring with them a different view of rules, which may collide with the underpinnings of highland games.
   
2. Technology  - The idea of the true measure of ones performance is on head-to-head competition on the same field has been diminished by the ranking system and the database . 
   
3. Records - There is an almost obsession of records in all sports.  However, heavy athletics does not lend itself to having meaningful records, yet there is a fascination with them.

The combination of rules written with cultural/heritage underpinnings, the competitive nature of humans, athletes from different backgrounds,  and many other things have lead to changes (some controversial) in Heavy Athletics -- examples:  Spinning VS Stand and deliver,  whether full length weights are acceptable in WOB event, whippy 1/2" PVC handles, ...

When people criticize these changes as going against tradition and heritage, ... the standard backlash is on the lines that they stifles the sport. 

Whether the statement about tradition is correct or not,  the argument lessons the heritage aspect of Heavy Athletics, which is the underpinnings of the rules that govern the sport and what is and is not acceptable behavior. 

When it comes to the rules used to govern this sport, tradition and heritage has perhaps been to easily dismissed  (despite them being underpinnings of heavy athletics).  In this environment, can the highland games community expect tradition and heritage to play a strong role in influence what is and is not acceptable behavior?

This is perhaps a stretch to tie this to PED use, but I believe it plays a part in the changes. 

the things that work against drug testing program are:

- no governing organization in US -- who would administer the funds?

- ADs tend to be an independent lot.  Both from cultural background where local rules can override and partly that many bust their buts going to festival meeting to help organize or prevent disorganization so the festival exists to host the event.

- Heavy athletics perform mostly at festivals which are always under financial constraint -- I am always asked to cut costs or raise registration fees, can you organize a fund raiser..., often the pressure gets worse after a bad year.    Thus, the money would have to come from participants.

If heavy athletics is a sport then it should be governed like a sport.  It is not governed like a sport because its is a cultural/heritage event as much as it is a sport  (lots of reasons why this is a good thing).  Thus, a balance is struck between sports and heritage and this balance will always have loop holes. 

This comes back to the basis of  this tread: Personal responsibility, respect for competitors, add to that peer pressure that certain actions are not acceptable,  ... 

The question I have struggled with : 
Is that enough? and if it is not, then how is it to be over come or can it? 

Is this only a problem for the pros? 
I would be naive to think someone would not juice to win a $13 Pakistani made sword as the reasons are far more complex than that.

(and as it was posted earlier, drug testing has been covered ad nausea before)

I know I'm in the minority here but I have no problem at all with pros using steroids or whatever.  But when I say pro I'm talking the NFL/NHL/MLB etc. level.  People put their bodies through alot more risk for a lot less money in other career fields.  Highland Games though?  My guess is none of the guys here is getting rich and if you sign a piece of paper saying you are not using when you are, then you are a liar and I hope it eats away at you.

Ams/Masters etc?  If you are using to win that $15 Pakistani sword or a gift certificate to kilts r us then you got some issues.

I realize I might be in the minority here but my feelings are pretty simply "show up, shut up and throw". The "drug free 4 lyfe" flag is awesome to wave, but where do you draw the line for testing? Just anabolics?

Because if you go IOC testing, some of the guys who suck back enough Red Bull or Rock Star to float the QE II are going to get popped too. Do you suddenly say "Oh, it's just caffeine!"? Because that much stims isn't natural either and it has a positive effect on throwing.

Everyone on here is among the lucky ones. We aren't the people in the stands, watching. We're the ones center stage, dressed as traditionally as we can, throwing implements that (hopefully!) are direct analogs to the equipment that's been around for hundreds of years.

Pipes in the background, sunshine if we're lucky, good folks around us and a little healthy competition. I don't know about anyone else, but I still make a lot more money at my job than I do from games. Maybe the top guys don't, I don't know. And I don't much care.

In every sport, top guys are top guys. Drugs can't turn a mediocre athlete into a world beater. If someone wants to play with their endocrine system in order to pop a couple of feet up or what have you, that's on them. If ADs know, same as us, who's playing hot and who isn't, maybe they should lead the way by not inviting those guys. Maybe the throwing community itself stops making these guys welcome. I don't know.

I do know that the logistics and the money of the situation are going to dictate the solution and that's cold, hard fact. Only ONE guy said he'd give up HALF his purse for testing. Everyone who stayed quiet, whether they meant to or not, has pretty much said "I want the issue to go away, but I don't want it to cost me anything."

High ams, masters, etc? Guys like me? We don't matter, sorry. In the HG world, we're the 150# guys in the gym using the 15# dumbells. We can stand there and look at the titans roaming the weight room and say "It's gotta be drugs", etc etc. but we don't KNOW. We might not have been BORN to throw. Or BORN to explode. Or maybe we don't work hard enough. Who knows? But out "$5 a head" solutions aren't going to work.

It'll come from the top down or not at all.

So I'm just going to keep trying to get better and look forward to every games day I have the great fortune and blessing to be a part of. It's not an athletic competition to me more than it is a chance to be part of something bigger. At the end of the day, I just want to give back as much as it's given me.

And now that I've said my piece, I'm going to go back to making fun of people whenever possible. :)

will barron wrote: One thing that always boggles my mind is that while steroids are supposedly against the law, every grocery store, gas station and convenience store in the nation has a magazine stand with Flex, MuscleMag and the rest...how does the bodybuilding industry flourish as it does? I just don't get it...

Jay Cutler says it all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE6uegoRiFk&playnext=1&list=PL275BDC6EC4AA068B - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE6uegoRiFk&playnext=1&am p;list=PL275BDC6EC4AA068B

I LOVE this post by HB3! 

Since I don't post much here, I will just say this.  PED's are bad for any sport, bad for any athlete and bad for anything that wants to maintain honor, tradition, respect and history.  I have just restarted throwing in the HG Masters and during my pro career I had the honor of sharing the field with many of the legends of these games.  As a lifetime drug free athlete I implore all of us to remain drug free and sustain a drug free athletic atmosphere.

One last point not necessarily on the topic...It has always amazed me as to the level of intelligence, well-spokenness and proclivity of Highland Games people.  Truly a remarkable breed!

Sean, I pop caffeine like it's going out of style :) I don't put it in the same category as PEDs, obviously, all I was saying was that full IOC testing has a threshold for that. And most of us are over that before we're done breakfast :)

Lets try this again

I would give up a percentage of my prize money for drug testing. I think most pros would too.

McDoubles without the cheese?

A McDouble without cheese is something you might get at McDowell's.

Reference check...go.

really? with the avatar change?

I imagine I am not helping keep this thread on topic. down with steroids!

Styler wrote: My drug of choice = LOVE!

And Beer....lotsa cold cold beer.  

Communists get NO CHEESE!

http://www.liveforfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/rocky-drago.jpg">

will barron wrote: cheese "products" are my nemesis. cheese sauce, cheese spread, cheese goop, cheese spray, cheese from Mcdonalds...all of it, nasty. Don't imagine Mcdonalds will ever offer McDoubles with aged Vermont Cheddar...but a girl can hope...

And the gayest thing Anthony can think of is "Glee"? Really?

I've suggested this before but will throw it out there again - run it like a claiming race.

• All willing participants register.
• All participants are subject to random testing (in or out of competition)
• Testing only happens when one participant requests that another participant be tested (the requestor may decide when this happens) BUT the requestor has to pay the full cost for the test.
• A participant who fails a test must repay the full cost of the test and is banned (one year for the first failure, two years for the second, life for the third).

It's a simple put up or shut up solution. You think someone is dirty, prove it and put your money behind it, not just your big mouth. You claim to be clean, prove it and open yourself up to random testing.

I find this both an interesting discussion as a useless discussion because at the end in all come to the same thing as Ryan said. Responsability..

Looking at yourself in the mirror after you preformance and knowing how you accomplished it..

Without starting a new fire let me tell you that we Europeans find Americans when it's comes to this topic very HYPOCRIT.

You have National sports like Football and Bodybuilding where athletes preform that look like they came from another planet.. Nobody can become like that in a natural way but nobody talk about it and Joe Weider still tried to make it an Olympic sport.. Common !!

We see basketball players leave Europe to play in the NBA an after a year they gained 30pounds of muscles ???

You sell supplements in stores that are illegal in Europe but you just call them regular supplements. Once an American told me that testosteron is already produced by your body so injecting it is not realy using drugs ?????? What explanation is that ??? As far As I know increasing this gives you more muscle and strenght. and Polish power...

Don't be hypocrit about it. Look at Lance Armstrong..

And what is clean ?? My personal opinion is different when it comes to this. When somebody used like 5 years ago and gained 30pounds is the fact that he has more muscles on his frame not a fact that he is stronger ? If he kept on to his bodyweight ? Even tho he is not using for the moment..

Even the fact u have a DRUG FREE powerlifting association ?? Only the name makes me laugh..

I think the IHGF is doing what they can.. I organized big games and the budget needed for testing in some countries is to much for some organisations. Here you can get it for free if you report your event to the Goverment. You have a 50% chance to get tested then. No charges.

Here you can aslo get tested in a regular gym when you work out even if you are not an athlete. There is a testing bus that drives around the county. Fines up to 5000 dollars an 2 years sanction. It's like a lottery..

So I think that the original post from HB was a good one.. He was just trying to say that we have a responsabilty and I could not sais it better than he did.. Thanks for that..

This was just how we look at it over here in Europe.. I do love you guys in the States :-)

hbaileyIII wrote: BigScot50, Thanks for your honesty and confirmation to the negative side of using.  I would have to imagine that not using after personally seeing the considerable "assistance" PED's give you must be even more difficult than never using at all.

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but its UNBELIEVABLE how difficult it is. Any lifetime drug free user just doesn't know how amazing it makes you feel. Screw the muscle gains, strength gains and nutrient partition. Just how you feel is enough to make someone want to stay on forever.

I tried PEDs 7 years ago when I was trying to pursue a BBing carreer (at age 21, lulz). I'm a natural fatty. Vitamin T got me lean as hell and that's what I wanted, 235 @ 8% bf & a 465 bench w/ 19.5" gunzzzzz, I was def satisfied at the time. But hell, I had a 425 bench and 19" gunz guns naturally. And as a result of that one cycle, now I've got the test count of a 5 year old girl and that's after a very vigorous PCT. *sigh*

Since then my mindset changed and although I still want to look pretty, being sub 10% is not a goal for me anymore anytime soon. I have since learned how to train and diet smarter as well as gained maturity both physically and psychologically. I'm not an impatient 21 year old punk like I was, strength is a game that takes time to win. I like being big, I like being strong and I like being able step on the platform or in the trig against guys that are using and know that I beat them without the help and if I lose to them, it drives me that much harder to keep pushing forward into higher levels. At almost 28 years old, I'm both bigger and stronger than when I was hitting the sauce when I was 21, albeit fatter, but you take some you lose some, haha. Fact of the matter is, I can reach my goals without it and I have a beautiful wife and son I want to grow old with.