DISTANCES AND VARYING WEIGHTS

I figure this is as good a place to ask this question as any.  I recently have made huge strides in my heavy hammer distances but my light hammer is not improving at the same rate.  My best throws this year brought my heavy hammer within 5ft of my light hammer.

Someone pointed out that some guys do better with the heavier weights and I have noticed since just completing my 2nd season of HG's that I may fall into this category.  Of course training more than once or twice with the weights will make a difference.

Here are examples my sheaf with a 20# and 16# are both 20ft and the 20# sheaf I find easier meaning 0 misses and miss a lot with the 16#

Heavy hammer used to have 15ft difference wiht light.  This year heavy 74ft light best was 77ft.  Last year best with heavy was 58ft.

I have seen guys that beat me by 5ft on the HWD and I beat them by 5ft on the LWD.

Just curious if anyone can shed some light on this.

Wayne Hill wrote: If explosiveness weren't a factor, the distances should scale inversely with weight (so you'd throw the 28 twice as far as the 56).  In heights, it's similar, except the base height is something like 3' (so the scaling is inverse with weight after subtracting 3' because anybody who can stand up would get 3'). Anyway, explosiveness is a big factor, so records with heavy and light implements don't quite scale this way.  In hammers, for a well-trained athlete, there's a few percent "explosiveness deficit" with the light hammer. If your throws with the light implements are short of linear scaling by more than a few percent, then you're slow and should work on your explosiveness.  If they're at or longer than the linear scaling, then you should work on strength.

HUH!!!!  Where am I???  Linear scaling?!?  I feel like I am back in my Engineering classes.  I am talking about throwing heavy objects.   ha.

This is almost too much for me to grasp.

Wayne Hill wrote: That's a clear example of an explosiveness deficit.  You're getting either bag up to the same terminal velocity, rather than getting the lighter bag going faster.

Can you explain more regarding explosiveness deficit?

Wayne Hill wrote: There are lots of measures of strength.  Limit strength determines how heavy a weight you can lift, no matter how slowly.  Then there's strength-speed, speed-strength, and so forth.  Most HG events call for strength-speed, i.e., applying maximal force to an object that's moving fairly quickly (but not as fast as a baseball, for example).  You really should be able to toss a lighter sheaf higher than a heavier one:  if you get 20' with a 20# bag, you should be able to get 24' with a 16#.  If you can't, it's because the acceleration of the bag keeps you from applying more force (because it's running away from you). If the height you get with the light bag isn't considerably higher than with a heavier bag, all the strength training in the world won't help you.  The answer is to get more explosive, i.e., improve your ability to apply force quickly.  The way to do that is with quick lifts, plyos, throwing, and movement drills.

Ok I get it.  I have a powerlifting background and that is what formed my lifting techniques.  Slow controlled lifts.  I will have to do some reading on here and other places and create a workout routine that encorporates more of the explosive lifts.  I know right away what some of them are and I will have to force myself to like them.  Power Cleans is one I better start adding.

A follow up on this from yesterdays training.  I worked on my heavy and lt hammer.  As much as I worked on the lt hammer we came to some issues.  I know they are both on here.  With my lt hammer I get the speed up so fast that I am getting very little if any pull.  I am just following through with the rotation it seems. 

Now with the heavy I can feel the pull and my rotation is slower.  Here is my dilemna I worked on slowing down my lt hammer so I could feel the pull and distances were within 3-4 ft of full speed rotation.

My friend suggested that I try throwing with 1 turn for a while then after a few weeks add the 2nd turn and so on until I get a full pull with 3 turns.  What do you guys suggest?

I'm not sure "weeks" is the right plan but it's a good idea. Take 5 or 6 one spin throws, then 5 or 6 two spin. You should be able to increase your distance by ten feet or so. Then go to three spins. If you aren't improving, or feel it slowing down, figure out how to fix it before going on.

Interesting point about strenght/explosiveness too. I'm at the other end, power cleaned over 320 but never DL'd more than 450.

I have to report back Ryan you and I are similar I have power cleaned 265 and DL 625.

I tried working on this I thought my torn Rhomboid was better, a few high pulls and I discovered it wasn't better. 

Here is a good test to see IF you are in PEAK throwing condition:  do a standing broad jump (RECORD)  example 8-feet    Then do 3-bunny hops (double leg broa jumps) in a row (dont pause)  

See where you are at in terms of reversibility: EXAMPLE : below average ( if you jumped 8 ft for 1-hop) and you score under 24-feet you have a negaive deficit.   Average =24-ft   Above average - 25' 6"    in other words the more talent you have....the bigger ( plus margin) you will have . 

So body weight to power will have an effect on this plus your ability too reverse ones direction has a tremedous effect on distance !

#1 indicator of talent =  what percent of your height can you jump ?   Anyone on here can jump onto a platform at shoulder height ?