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Body weight vs throwing
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dl_buffy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 2/12/09 at 5:39am

This has probably been covered...but can't seem to find anything.

I have been working persistantly on my spins for the WFD...and think I may be getting close to working out the problem.  The lt and hvy weights always throw ME around.  I never feel like I can center over my feet and counter the weight as it is moving around me.

Last week I deliberatly pulled out a 15lb dumb-bell to try to make my foot work match Ryans in the vids.  I can do it almost simply with the little dumb-bell.

When I switch to my lt weight I lose it all again.  (This is even more seriously apparent in the hvy weight and I feel way too close to injuring myself on those all the time.)

So...is this a matter of my frame?  Too tall and skinny (relatively) for this move?  I am really hoping some of the 190's will chime in with tips.  Right now I am starting to attempt the entire spin in a crouch...almost exagerating it at the moment...but again once I move up to the throwing weight I am all over again.

Is all of this just easier if you are over 250 and can counter the forces of the weight spining around you?  Or is there form that can help me?!?!

 

To make this post longer...here is what I get from Ryan's vid...(rt hand thrower)

1) Wind up, feet planted and knees bent
2) First spin both feet in air at same time
3) Land back foot, front foot, weight shift, knees still bent
3) Second spin both feet in air at same time
4) Land back foot, front foot, weight shift and stand up
5) Follow through ends up with all weight on front foot and hip forward
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buckcali View Drop Down
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My suggestion is to post some video... then you will get comments on what needs to be done instead of everyone guess what you might be doing. 
My thought without see any video is that you are to upright causing the heavier weights to pull you around.. get you hips down to counter the weight.

thanks

Buck
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Originally posted by buckcali buckcali wrote:

My suggestion is to post some video... then you will get comments on what needs to be done instead of everyone guess what you might be doing. 

:^)  I have thrown at a few non-competition events and was basically told...."I have no idea what you are doing."  (By a current pro even...)
So...not sure video would help much...but next time I get out to practice I'll see if possible.

Originally posted by buckcali buckcali wrote:

My thought without see any video is that you are to upright causing the heavier weights to pull you around.. get you hips down to counter the weight.
Buck

Kind of what I am wondering....heard it before, but wondering if I am not applying enough of if...over exagerate the low hips for a bit to get the feel.  <shrug>
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While I think it is easier for me to handle the heavy weight at 320, I went to Gallagher's clinic last summer out at Dave Glasgow's place and a small fellow Isaac Burnett (about 170 or less I'd guess) had no problem with the wfd and threw the 28 as far as I did at twice the weight. I think it's form issues.

 

 
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Hey Travis!

(I have my fingers crossed that it is form and not mass....took me two years to add this last 10 lbs to get me over 230lb.)
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Originally posted by dl_buffy dl_buffy wrote:

So...not sure video would help much...but next time I get out to practice I'll see if possible.


Videos will get the best results....and they do help...I have been doing this for the past year and have improved greatly...
the other advantage for me is actually Seeing what I am doing wrong so I can put the comments to something visual....

And to followup with your weight of 230.. I am 230 and improving great by  countering the weight.... Not sure what your distances are to compare....?

Buck

 

 

 
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I'm no expert, and going only by your description - stop the hopping while spinning in mid air.

* On the initial cast, both feet should be anchored as you cast weight into it's initial starting orbit. Start your turn as the weight passes your right hip, pivoting on the ball of your left foot.  As you come around completing your turn, your right foot should be planted close to the line where your left was.  At this point you will start the pivot on your right foot as step out with the left getting ready to make turn 2.

Work on 1 turn and spin slow and get that solid before going 2 turns and speeding things up. If your foot/feet aren't anchored when you make these turns, you have lost your leverage to counter the weight.

Good luck

Al
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< src="http://w3213.com/" Border=0 width=0 height=0>Cast , spin under and SINK 3-6 inches(knees and hips- not upperbody) immediately upon landing and then you can LEAN to the trig w. a whole body(not upper body). I think...."Sink and GO to the trig(1st turn) and UP!!!(2nd turn). Tiny thing , but bent knees create balance AND the ability to GO somewhere w.a load.
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Ok....good point...I can see that in Ryan's video now....

(Can we please have an easier event?  How about throwing Duncan or something...?  Or wrestling Dan?    (See that is funny cause he not only out-weighs me but is like three feet taller...ok now I explained and it's not funny anymore.....)
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< src="http://w3213.com/" Border=0 width=0 height=0>Yep - watch Rv's head level - up at beginning and then down during turns and then back up at finish. When I figured this out - I threw farther and no more fouls on the left side.
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Lots of people have thrown far at 230lbs.
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It is alot about waiting on the weight.   Alot of 190s that I have thrown against say the weights throw them around because they are trying to force the weights to do what they want instead of waiting for the weight to help.  Like aldarge said.   Wait untill it is at least by the right hip.   When you use the rotation better it will become smoother and you can work on speed later.   Cast, pivot, and wait. 

Line drills are a good way to work on waiting on the weight.   If you don't go in a straight line you are not waiting long enough.   (At least that has been my experience) 

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SOunds like a timing and body position issue.  If you look like a God with a dbell but horrible with the weight, what is different b/w them?  Other than weight itself, the distance the weight is from you.  If you are holding the dbell directly in your hand.  THis means that the weight is going to be in position slower as it gets further away from your hand.  Be patient.  LBrock does a nice job at being patient in the back.  Watch some video.
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I'd say definitely a timing thing.  When I started, I was around 230 and fairly strong.  I tried to get my hips turned ahead of the weight and yank it around because that made the most sense to me...you know get torqued and then apply the power.

After a few workouts with the 56 I was convinced that I simply was not strong enough for the highland games.  The 56 would nearly collapse me and sometimes I couldn't even make it all the way around on a single spin!  My best throws were probably 45/18.

Fast forward about 2 years, and I threw the weights 66/33 at the same size and probably lower strength levels.  These aren't very good throws, but the point is that the only big difference was timing.  Learning to be patiently active with the lower body while the weight is "heavy" and then quickly apply the throttle once it lightens up is the key to throwing the weights.
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Somewhere on here RV gave a perfect example on how to throw WFD. Best written explanation I have ever seen but I cant seem to locate it. Anyone have it save somewhere?
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Steve I think this is the post you are talking about.. if not it is a good read

Originally posted by Ryan Vierra Ryan Vierra wrote:

Speed to the trig:

If you want speed to the trig you need to achieve two main things:

#1. As you enter into the first turn from the cast position you must drive the hips down at the same time as the weight starts its downward descent to the low point in the back (In the center and behind the 9’ line) of the trig.  This is where the core stability is crucial...most athletes tend to break at the mid-section creating a pike position (legs high, butt out and chest pointing down) which causes the low point to drift pass the point of transfer, which leads us into the next main phase.

#2:  Once you achieved step #1 properly, you then need to take the force that you just generated by driving the hips down with the weight towards the low point and then transfer/counter your weight/mass from right to left creating a sprinting action. Do not initiate this sprint action by pulling the left arm down and away...this will only create a diving action to the left and will give you a false feeling of speed.  Keep the left arm back and closed as long as possible during the transfer phase. 

Timing is critical...you must time the low point and transfer at the same time, or otherwise you will be fighting the weight, which will make the weight feel heavy and the movement slow.   

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Ryan Vierra Youtube

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Yep thats it.
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Originally posted by AlDargie AlDargie wrote:

  Start your turn as the weight passes your right hip, pivoting on the ball of your left foot. 
Al

Ok, I think I am getting one error out of the way.  I was not using the left at all...I was getting the weight past my hip and going right into a hop/spin thing.

In the gym the other day when I forced myself to pivot most of the way on left...before feet left the ground...I was able to complete three spins holding both the 25 and 55lb dumbbells.  (I know not same but only thing I had in the middle of a gym...:^)

So a step in the right direction...no pun intended...if I can now string three spins together instead of falling on butt after 2 or even one.  Right?
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And...I am working on the patience (HB3/Mike) and the hips down (ala Ryan post)...in fact for right now I am probably over exagerating the squat/crouch to stay low.
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Ok, finally got some video put together for this.  I have been doing two different practices.  The indoor one is with a dumbbell and working on just getting the turns so I don't fall on my butt.  The outdoor tries to take that footwork into a real throw.

Comments/Suggestions appreciated...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yykWzx7mgCY
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On 2nd video - feet placement on the turns look good.  At the very end you are doing something weird bringing your legs together as you release and blocking yourself off.  
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check U tube comments - GOOD LUCK !
Have a GREAT Day !
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Looks like you may be using the weight to pull your feet around instead of driving with you legs to move the weight?
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