What percentage max allows for speed training?

Not a dumb question, but another one where the correct answer is "it depends".  There is a BIG difference between various lifts.  To start with, lifts like Squats, Bench Presses and Deadlifts (etc) are sometimes known as "slow lifts" while the Olympic lift variations are often known as "quick lifts".  Not surprisingly, you are going to be able to use a higher percentage of your max on the quick lifts and still be able to move the bar quickly.  But even between the quick lifts there is some variation, e.g. between a snatch onto virtually straight legs where you could probably use at least 95% v.s. a clean caught in a half squat, where the percentage might only be 80% or so.  For the "slow lifts" you are probably in the range of 40% to 70%, depending on how fast you want to move the bar and how you are "geared" personally (and I am not referring to drugs or supportive equipment).

C. Smith wrote: I really encourage people to get some kind of device to actually measure this, as it is really difficult without.  I think a lot of people that do "speed work" without a quantifiable way to measure just end up having a lighter training session, or use weights that are entirely too heavy to fall within the speed range we're looking for.

Great advice.  Following conjugate training for a long time (Westside), I have always just gone by feel.  As a scientist, this has always scared me.  Louie Simmons has obviously done a lot of work with his lifters and with a Tendo unit to find those optimal percentages for a powerlifter for "speed", and I think the rest of us have hoped this translates to us. 

After being on this board a bit, I realized I wished I had a unit to measure bar velocity.  With the power factor basically unavailable and the Tendo unit prohibitively expensive, I guess I will be stuck for awhile saying "I felt fast and snappy".

I basically use Prilepins's chart as my guide for modulating volume and intensity when doing rep or speed work.  I try to stay in the 55-70% range for my "speed" work but again, I wish I had a unit for quantification.

Cool, this came up in my head because last night was a back off night on the 531 and since I was going to be in the 60-75% range I thought I would just lift quick then.  So I wasn't sure if there was actually a recommended range for that kind of thing.

dl_buffy wrote: Cool, this came up in my head because last night was a back off night on the 531 and since I was going to be in the 60-75% range I thought I would just lift quick then.  So I wasn't sure if there was actually a recommended range for that kind of thing.   So, to Craig's point about the speed measuring device.  When I attempt to lift fast it is usually into a jump or getting the weight's to reach a weightless moment.  So if I am wanting to speed squat I'll do bench to box jumps.  If I am doing my RDL's for quick finish then I am rising up onto my toes (same for dead's).  Bench or push presses the weight will hit the peak and 'lift' out of my hand.   Is this similar to what you feel when you are measuring speed work?   As for the olympic lifts, power snatch from the floor is the main one in my rotation.  Switching from BB to DB's depending.  The thing with these is that I can also find they reach a point where they are too heavy to 'feel' fast, but maybe tht is when I should just be trying to push it harder.

If I may be permitted to expand this thread a bit, one also needs to consider what "speed work" means for a given athlete and specifically what they are trying to accomplish.  A lot of info on "speed training" with weights more or less originated with Westside for powerlifting.  Powerlifting is obviously a different sport than throwing and therefore has somewhat different physical requirements.  So while using 50% of one's max squat would clearly constitute speed work for a powerlifter, this is not really true when it comes to a thrower, whose competitive activity takes place at a much higher speed.  This does not mean that lifting in this manner is useless for a thrower, simply that it is not going to effectively train one's muscles to move at a similar speed or even faster than they do when throwing the competition implement.  This is why throwing and other related activities such as overhead tosses with shot, various medicine ball and pud tosses, jumping, and short sprints can be so valuable to a thrower, particularly throwers who are strong but are not "fast" or "explosive".  For those individuals who can deadlift 600 pounds but can barely jump onto a 24" box or achieve a decent distance in the overhead shot toss, this type of work should be a key element of their training.

dl_buffy wrote: This is also why I am not sure if I am a believer in the 'think fast' as you lift.

I am with you 100% here. 

Which is why I said, if possible, get something to measure. 

I thought I always lifted fast...until I actually hooked something to the bar that told me otherwise.