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Mr. Natural View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Natural Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/08 at 12:23pm
Lots of good beer too. Not that you can't have it for breakfast...
The John Birch society flyers were weird though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valenti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/08 at 12:26pm
did any one see those smoke signals coming from the Mesa area.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/08 at 12:50pm
  INside joke folks   and by the way great job Will now maybe you can throw the hammer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Pauli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/08 at 3:52pm

A thrower didn't get what they were promised?!?!

Welcome to the pros baby!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wallyworld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/08 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Valenti Valenti wrote:

Will the women get paid this year to?

The women have been being paid since we first started having their classes at the Claw in '89.  We just tried to fool everyone by calling it "scholarships!"

Originally posted by Kover Kover wrote:

I remember a girl last yr that got NO MONEY

Originally posted by C.Smith C.Smith wrote:

...I thought there was money promised to the girls last year?

Originally posted by Jason Pauli Jason Pauli wrote:

A thrower didn't get what they were promised?!?!

Have fun yankin' my crank, guys!  That's what I'm here for!!  I'm sure that the woman in question was second in a class that only had two competitors.  We have a rule that says "There must be at least four competitors in a class in order for all prizes to be awarded."  The idea being that an athlete has to actually beat someone to collect Champion or Runner-up money.  Had there been three entrants, l'd have paid her.  This woman marked on her entry that she had read and understood the rules.  She should have come to me for an explanation!

Originally posted by Valenti Valenti wrote:

Enumclaw is like heaven...everyone turns pro!

Not "heaven," just the only place big enough for our show.  And nobody turns "pro,"  I don't even recognize the whole "Pro/Am" thing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anfearrua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/08 at 7:44pm

I'm sure that the woman in question was second in a class that only had two competitors.  We have a rule that says "There must be at least four competitors in a class in order for all prizes to be awarded."  The idea being that an athlete has to actually beat someone to collect Champion or Runner-up money.  Had there been three entrants, l'd have paid her.  This woman marked on her entry that she had read and understood the rules.  She should have come to me for an explanation!

Does there have to be 4 in a class to get paid or do you just have to beat somebody ? if there is only 2 in a class why not just have an open class so everybody is satisfied i'm sure had she know their was only 2 in her class she would of signed up for another class... or did she?

Irish by birth,Munster by the grace of god.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 2:03am

Originally posted by wallyworld wallyworld wrote:


Have fun yankin' my crank, guys!  That's what I'm here for!!  I'm sure that the woman in question was second in a class that only had two competitors.  We have a rule that says "There must be at least four competitors in a class in order for all prizes to be awarded."  The idea being that an athlete has to actually beat someone to collect Champion or Runner-up money.  Had there been three entrants, l'd have paid her.  This woman marked on her entry that she had read and understood the rules.  She should have come to me for an explanation!

Yet there were only 5 open women, and you put them in two separate classes?  Not like i care, but im sure you can see what some might think....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Ingram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 6:52am

Quote
Not "heaven," just the only place big enough for our show.  And nobody turns "pro,"  I don't even recognize the whole "Pro/Am" thing!

 

You're ahead of your time Wally.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valenti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 1:09pm
I'm all for that Wally,,,lets put ALL the money in one pot,,,,and have at it.  Why pay ams and pros...everyone is pro so the money is up for grabs...I got no problem with that.  Anyone else?
"All you need in this life is a tremendous sex drive and a great ego...brains don't mean sh!t"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 1:49pm

Originally posted by Valenti Valenti wrote:

I'm all for that Wally,,,lets put ALL the money in one pot,,,,and have at it.  Why pay ams and pros...everyone is pro so the money is up for grabs...I got no problem with that.  Anyone else?

 

+1.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wallyworld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by anfearrua anfearrua wrote:

Does there have to be 4 in a class to get paid or do you just have to beat somebody ?

The rule is as it reads.  However, l do pay the Champion if there's a second competitor in the class, Runner-up if there's a third
 
Quote if there is only 2 in a class why not just have an open class so everybody is satisfied

Then i'd have three unhappy B's, two of which didn't win anything.
 
Quote i'm sure had she know their was only 2 in her class she would of signed up for another class... or did she?

Two points, (if we're talking about an A athlete) a.  there was supposed to be four in her class (including Summer Pierson) and b.  an A can't sign up for a lower class.  lt turned out that two of the entrants (and Summer was one of these) in that class were no-shows.

 
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Yet there were only 5 open women, and you put then in two separate classes?


Prior experience said that we would have enuf entrants to merit both an A AND a B class.  Prior to Games day, it appeared that there would be four A's and three B's.  lt felt wrong to me to up and change what we had been offering AFTER the womem showed up to compete!  Until the morning of the Women's comp, it appeared that there were enuf A's!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wallyworld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Valenti & C. Smith Valenti & C. Smith wrote:

lets put ALL the money in one pot,,,,and have at it....everyone is pro so the money is up for grabs...I got no problem with that.

An interesting concept!  Just take ALL of the prize money and divide down to about 60 places!  l'm afraid, however, that that would greatly diminish the moneys now earmarked for the Elite class!  Still "no problem?"

Quote Why pay ams and pros....

We DON'T invite "ams and pros!"  We invite: Elite Men, Class A, Class B and Master classes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Pauli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 3:58pm

This is startin' to sound like lawyer talk...

I like Mark's idea and I've supported such ideas in the past. But you don't break it down to 60 places, just to somewhere between 10-20.

Those that came for their money get it. Those that come to throw for "fun" or "honor" or whatever get theirs also.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wallyworld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/31/08 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by Jason Pauli Jason Pauli wrote:

I like Mark's idea and I've supported such ideas in the past. But you don't break it down to 60 places, just to somewhere between 10-20.

Those that came for their money get it. Those that come to throw for "fun" or "honor" or whatever get theirs also.

Spoken by a person who was never awarded $25 in his entire "amateur" career!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Pauli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 1:05am

I'm not sure what you intended by that.

Ah the vagaries of internet communication.

My goal as an amateur was always to go pro and I did it as soon as I could. Probably too soon.

The 10's of thousands of dollars I made as a pro made up for my amateur career

Team Pauli - You never walk alone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatmiked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 2:02am

Hey Wally,  sounds awesome. 

The increase in prize money combined with the travel expense allotment make it easier and more likely that more Am's (or non-Elites, or whatever) can make the trip and the comp will be that much better.

It will definitely make the ol' lady happy to know I won't be spending quite as much to make it out there this year.

BTW, I like Valenti's idea.  Throwing against the Elites would result in a pretty good schoolyard beating,   but I might just land a shot or two.   

Besides, it would be fun and great for the on field education.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Pauli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 2:13am
Originally posted by phatmiked phatmiked wrote:

BTW, I like Valenti's idea.  Throwing against the Elites would result in a pretty good schoolyard beating,   but I might just land a shot or two.   

Besides, it would be fun and great for the on field education.

AWESOME attitude Mike

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 6:35am
Originally posted by Jason Pauli Jason Pauli wrote:

This is startin' to sound like lawyer talk...

I like Mark's idea and I've supported such ideas in the past. But you don't break it down to 60 places, just to somewhere between 10-20.

Those that came for their money get it. Those that come to throw for "fun" or "honor" or whatever get theirs also.

+1

Dead on Jason.

Cheers,

Carlos



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valenti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 7:58am
no need to go to 60 places....everyone throws  and still the top ten or top twelve "Elite "get the money...Now its your throws that will determine if you are elite or not.
"All you need in this life is a tremendous sex drive and a great ego...brains don't mean sh!t"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 9:09am
Damn straight Mark!!!!
Cheers,

Carlos



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kilted Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 9:24am
I think that when you have a system of money awards not everyone is going to agree on how it is handed out. In some places in Scotland & Canada they have money & is divided amoungst all the throwers competing in the division.  At other games only the top 4 or 5  throwers receive in the division. 
As always it is up the the games & the AD's to decide what is best for their games. At the Claw, it has always been that to recieve money or metals too, there must be at least one person behind you to receive the prizes. If you are the only one throwing in the class then you dont automatically get metals or money award. If there is 2 in the class then only throws that are first place get metals & overall winner will only receive the money award.  If there is 4 in a field then metals go down to 3rd place & overall winner & runner up get some money.
What is important to remember, is that the Claw is one of the only games (besides Portland) that offer  3 divisons for women. Unfortunately some years our numbers have not been very good & some people have had to pull out at the last minute.  I applaud Wally for keeping these divisions for us and the opportunity to win some travelling money or whatever. Many games still dont have a women's division at all and a majority of the games still group us all together.  Hopefully this will change as we get more female throwers to come out to all the games so will have full classes that will encourage AD's to have us throw.
We should applaud Wally for his efforts in continuing to put on a great games & get so many excellent athletes from all divisions competing & providing not only metals & trophies but money awards also.
We may not all agree how it should be divided but at least it is there for the taking.    Cheers Karyn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 12:36pm

Wally,

Keep doing what you're doing. It works and I have allways enjoyed your games as well as the perks of The Claw. Even if we throw from fake grass it is a great games for the NW. Once things get unified and your directed to follow a sanctioned directive it's your call.

Steve D.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nisie1976 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 2:46pm

I guess I'm still confused as to why there are 3 women's classes with a total of 8 women throwers. Seems like a perfect scenario for an open women's class. It's great to have several classes if you have the numbers to fill them up, but what's the point of having a class with just 1 or 2 throwers? Seems kinda silly really, or rather, a way to avoid having a full class...which avoids having to pay out! ah ha!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anfearrua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 3:09pm

ok first of all ,Wally I think you do a great thankless job but my only problem is that if a person signs up for a class where 4 or more enter and only 2 show up should the runner-up not be compensated for making the journey and especially if the money is there. 

see you all in july

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wallyworld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/01/08 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by anfearrua anfearrua wrote:

...if a person signs up for a class where...only 2 show up should the runner-up not be compensated...especially if the money is there

Our rules, which are in accordance with SAAA rules, state "A class must have at least four competitors in order for all awards to be presented."  lf l ignore that rule, why not ask me to ignore other rules?

[QUOTE=nisie1976]...I'm still confused as to why there are 3 women's classes with a total of 8 women throwers.

Past experience told us that there would be more entrants.  lf we had lumped them all in an "Open" class, that would be the same as saying that we weren't gonna' offer the women different divisions any longer.  l'm very proud that the Claw has been in the forefront of offering different classes where a person can learn and grow!!  That's why there's prize money, incentive!  l think that l was the first to offer something other than "one class fits all!"  ln '84, l split our only class.  l didn't even know what to call the second class.  l went with Novice and Amateur.  Prior to that, l'd never heard of a Novice class.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/02/08 at 3:44am

Valenti's post that i cosgned was in more a response to the genereal state of affairs, not your game specifically.  There are quite a few who have said make the money available to everyone, and by everyone, we mean those that throw the farthest.  I think it's kinda weird that you are so quick to dismiss the "Pro" class, but dangit! you're gonna have 3 womens's classes, regardless of the # of competitors. 

I understand that you stand by your decision, but do you really think that a "class" with only two competitors is/was the best option?

All that being said, I do actually applaud you for paying out the money you do there to the various "classes".    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Hadley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/02/08 at 4:07am
How come people have issues with classes in highland games? I think it adds to the sport. I think it's kind of a slap in the face to say that there are no pros.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/02/08 at 5:18am

Greg - there will always be the Pro class, i think that's why no one is really worried about it.  Just because one game likes to call the Pros something else, doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

Also, imo, if there is no "Pro" class at enumclaw, then the numbers shouldn't count toward the Pro Ranking Board.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Ingram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/02/08 at 10:37am
While the whole Pro/Am designation thing has been discussed a lot, I STILL think we'd be better off with categories based on actual throws/results than simply by bestowing the 'pro' title on anyone who takes money.

You think that no "Pro" class is a slap in the face Greg, I can see that- but what about the fact that I am as much a Pro as you are, by the current definition? Not just me but plenty of others who won't own up to the fact that they've accepted prize money but aren't good enough to actually compete at the Pro level.

As someone mentioned before, a performance based level- like Elite- makes more sense and to me more accurately describes the type of athlete at that level anyway. Pro implies that this is something done to make a living- Elite is what it is.

Greg= Pro
Jeff = Pro (by definition)

Greg= Elite
Jeff= Not

That's just the way I see it- no disrespect to anyone intended.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wallyworld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/02/08 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Valenti's post that i cosgned was in more a response to the genereal state of affairs, not your game specifically.  There are quite a few who have said make the money available to everyone, and by everyone, we mean those that throw the farthest. 
Well, l did say that l might be reading it wrong!  l'm sorry about that.
 
I think it's kinda weird that you are so quick to dismiss the "Pro" class,
l'm not dismissing the "Pro's," l just believe that one can't get away from the concept of "professionalism/amateurism" if one keeps using the term "professional!"  My little dictionary defines "Elite" as "Those who are choice or select.  The best."  How can someone be offended by that??
but dangit! you're gonna have 3 womens's classes, regardless of the # of competitors.
Once we offer three women's classes, it's very difficult to turn around and say that we're gonna lump them all together!  We made a promise that l intended to keep.

I understand that you stand by your decision, but do you really think that a "class" with only two competitors is/was the best option?
No, but telling three B women that they're being thrown in with the A's is a worse option.  The number of no-shows in the women's classes was part of what l was thinking about when l got permission to raise the prize money!!!!

All that being said, I do actually applaud you for paying out the money you do there to the various "classes".
Thank you.  l am trying.  

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