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Flexbility effecting throws? |
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J Payne
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Joined: 2/06/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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Topic: Flexbility effecting throws?Posted: 12/18/07 at 7:57pm |
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Was wondering how many of you guys felt flexibility was a key factor that can effect throws. The other day I was think about how much (if any) it might effect the hammer and got to wondering about the other events as well. It's a given that flexibility is important in any physical endeavor, but I was curious about more throw specific stuff. |
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S McCracken
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Posted: 12/19/07 at 3:53am |
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I think so, in all events not just hammer. but certin hammer.
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JWC III
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Posted: 12/19/07 at 7:13am |
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My throws went up a notch when I started working hard on my shoulder, spine, and hip flexibility. I'm much more flexible and my throws have shot up, in my opinion, a direct result. Here is the basic routine I've followed for the past year or so.
Active Recovery/Warm up Routine: “The Dozen”
5. NO bouncing. Each rep is smooth and slow.
6. Reverse Hyper: Dino Gym Style: Reverse Hyper/Leg Curl split, try to relax and sink. Each successive “sinking” is a rep. 11. Seated Good Morning: Good morning in a seated position 12. Sitting “Man Style”: Piriformis Stretch
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J Payne
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Joined: 2/06/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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Posted: 12/19/07 at 7:37am |
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Now the back, shoulders and hips were what got me to thinking about the hammer. The lats in particular.
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Coach Mac
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Posted: 12/24/07 at 4:39pm |
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FLEXIBILITY will increase your RANGE of MOTION This is a big deal if your naturally tight and in-flexible
WHEN to STRETCH: Based on the research, the best time to stretch is either after a workout, when the soft tissues are warm and pliable, or as a stand-alone workout that won’t be followed by anything powerful or intense. For example, you can stretch at your desk for as little as five minutes or at the end of the day for as long as 30 minutes. You can stretch after a vigorous weight-training workout or soccer game. But you shouldn’t stretch before your weight-training workout or soccer game. Instead, warm up lightly in a way that gently introduces your muscles to the upcoming activity, and save your stretching for after the activity is over. |
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Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay |
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Krazy40
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Posted: 12/27/07 at 4:21am |
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I was told to only be as flexible as you need to be. If you are over flexible, it takes away from your strech reflex. Which I haven't done the other events enough to know if it hurts those, but It does affect the stone throw. |
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Silverback
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Posted: 12/27/07 at 6:44am |
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Coach, I have been the typical. I ride the bike a lap and then sit down and do a routine of stretching and then start my warmup and then into the movement. Should I just move the stretching to the end of the workout? Leave the other stuff the same? My bones and the things attached hurt me a lot and I am trying to avoid injury. I guess the obvious things I am searching for with my stretch. Please suggest. I appreciate all the information, your blowing me away with it all.
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Pingleton
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Posted: 12/27/07 at 7:58am |
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Sorry, but I think you are confusing being flexible with doing serious stretching right before lifting, which some studies have suggested can reduce one's with the stretch reflex (I have copied the results of one such study below). So do your serious stretching after your workouts, but definitely do it. Now, at some very extreme point, being overly flexible might compromise joint stability, but this is just not going to happen to a thrower or anyone who lifts heavy weights. Many top discus throwers, most javelin throwers, and many great Olympic lifters (not to mention various jumpers etc.) have been very flexible and it hasn't hurt their performances at all. Almost certainly the opposite. I am curious what Mike "Rubberman" Baab has to say about this one! Terry Smith might also have something interesting to add.
Myles, Definitely move any serious stretching to the end of your workouts, but do as much as possible. Prior to your workouts, you should do a very easy jog or bike until you begin to warm up, then move into a dynamic warm-up. I was introduced to this type of warm-up back in the mid-1980's by my second coach, who was from Poland. I found something similar after a quick web search and have copied it below. Let me know if you have any questions. J Appl Physiol 86: 1283-1291, 1999; Altered reflex sensitivity after repeated and prolonged passive muscle stretchingNeuromuscular Research Center, Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, FIN-40100 Jyväskylä, Finland Experiments were carried out to test the effect of prolonged and repeated passive stretching (RPS) of the triceps surae muscle on reflex sensitivity. The results demonstrated a clear deterioration of muscle function immediately after RPS. Maximal voluntary contraction, average electromyographic activity of the gastrocnemius and soleus muscles, and zero crossing rate of the soleus muscle (recorded from 50% maximal voluntary contraction) decreased on average by 23.2, 19.9, 16.5, and 12.2%, respectively. These changes were associated with a clear immediate reduction in the reflex sensitivity; stretch reflex peak-to-peak amplitude decreased by 84.8%, and the ratio of the electrically induced maximal Hoffmann reflex to the maximal mass compound action potential decreased by 43.8%. Interestingly, a significant (P < 0.01) reduction in the stretch-resisting force of the measured muscles was observed. Serum creatine kinase activity stayed unaltered. This study presents evidence that the mechanism that decreases the sensitivity of short-latency reflexes can be activated because of RPS. The origin of this system seems to be a reduction in the activity of the large-diameter afferents, resulting from the reduced sensitivity of the muscle spindles to repeated stretch. Warm up exercises: your old-style warm-up exercises may need updatingIt is a common human failing to look very hard – maybe too hard – at something and still fail to see what’s staring you in the face. This may explain why coaches and athletes have continued to keep faith with the old-style warm-up despite mounting evidence that it doesn’t do what it says on the tin.
< =text/>
< src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js" =text/>
< name=google_ads_ marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/ads?client=ca-pub-1078308451453712&dt=1198783665312&lmt=1198783656&prev_fmts=468x60_as&at=160x600_as&output=&correlator=1198783665312&channel=9911861105%2B2733823745&pv_ch=9911861105%2B2733823745%2B&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pponline.co.uk%2Fencyc%2Fwarm-up-exercises.&color_bg=FFFFFF&color_text=000000&color_link=34B3D1&color_url=8E3D97&color_border=FFFFFF&ad_=text&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Ddynamic%2Bwarm-up%252C%2Btrack%26sourceid%3Die7%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft%3Aen-US%26ie%3Dutf8%26oe%3Dutf8&cc=100&ga_vid=398918987.1198783665&ga_sid=1198783665&ga_hid=150707788&flash=9&u_h=768&u_w=1024&u_ah=734&u_aw=1024&u_cd=32&u_tz=-300&u_his=5&u_java=true" Border=0 width=160 scrolling=no height=600 allowTransparency>> It’s a given that we need to warm up before we sprint, hit a tennis ball or attempt a clean and jerk. The process prepares us mentally and physically for the task ahead. Traditionally, athletes from most sports have been used to raising their body temperature with 5-15 minutes of gentle cardiovascular (CV) work and then stretching off. As a long jump athlete, I can remember jogging a couple of laps to get really warm, then sitting and chatting for the next half an hour while supposedly stretching. By the time the session started, I’d often be cold both physically and mentally. My body would have switched off and I would be far from optimally prepared for the dynamic activity to follow; in fact I would literally have to warm up all over again. Stretching was a major component of the ‘old’ warm-up, with coaches constantly reminding me that my range of movement had to be improved. But, with hindsight, the impact on my long jump performance of being able to do the box splits or clutch one hand to the other behind my back seems negligible. The ‘new’ theory about warm-ups is that we should replace the old generalist approach with a much more dynamic, focused routine, specifically tailored to our chosen sport. The various drills we employ need to warm up our muscles specifically for the movements that will be required of them in the activity to follow. In this way specific neuromuscular patterning will be switched on and specific, functional range of movement developed. It seems obvious, yet for some this is an almost revelatory concept. Former national track and field coach Tom McNab spoke at a recent PP meeting of the challenge that will need to be faced by coaches up and down the country, many of whom will have to turn their old ideas on their heads. Athletes, too, will need convincing to throw out the old concepts about warm-ups and usher in the new. But, in fact, the dynamic, focused warm-up is not as new a concept as it appears. Athletes from the former Soviet Bloc were using these types of warm-ups as far back as the 1970s – decades before they came to mainstream attention in the West. I remember attending a training course with former long jump world record-holder and (at the time) head Soviet coach Igor Ter-Ovanesian in the early 80s, and being put through a short, sharp warm-up, comprising star-jumps and various agility moves. On receiving the instruction to warm up, all athletes attending the course had begun by plodding round the track, only to be called back by an exasperated Ter-Ovanesian and instructed in the ‘new way’. Yet so entrenched were our ideas – and those of our coaches – on warming up that we failed to take this lesson to heart. How, then, should we warm up? The following guidance will work for runners and players of running-based sport, who need to be flexible enough to run efficiently in terms of power, relaxation and injury avoidance and (in running-based sports) to make quick changes of direction. For such athletes, specific range of movement will be required in the shoulders, lower back, hips, hamstrings, quads, calf muscles and achilles tendons. But preparing these areas for dynamic activity does not require lengthy periods of passive stretching. First, raise your body temperature with 5-10 minutes of gentle CV work. Slow-paced running is, after all, a very specific way to warm up your muscles for faster-paced efforts, and there is still a need to prepare the CV system for more strenuous exertions. It is possible to incorporate many of the moves described below into a type of seamless warm-up – ie by interspersing them with periods of jogging. But it is probably best to move gradually towards this goal over time – especially if you have always used the traditional, more staid, warm-up approach.
< =text/>
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< name=google_ads_ marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/ads?client=ca-pub-1078308451453712&dt=1198783665375&lmt=1198783656&prev_fmts=468x60_as%2C160x600_as&at=160x600_as&output=&correlator=1198783665359&channel=9911861105%2B2733823745&pv_ch=9911861105%2B2733823745%2B&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pponline.co.uk%2Fencyc%2Fwarm-up-exercises.&color_bg=FFFFFF&color_text=000000&color_link=34B3D1&color_url=8E3D97&color_border=FFFFFF&ad_=text&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Ddynamic%2Bwarm-up%252C%2Btrack%26sourceid%3Die7%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft%3Aen-US%26ie%3Dutf8%26oe%3Dutf8&cc=100&ga_vid=398918987.1198783665&ga_sid=1198783665&ga_hid=150707788&flash=9&u_h=768&u_w=1024&u_ah=734&u_aw=1024&u_cd=32&u_tz=-300&u_his=5&u_java=true" Border=0 width=160 scrolling=no height=600 allowTransparency>> You can increase the speed component of many of the drills as you become more proficient at performing them. This will ‘fire up’ your nervous system and increase the strength of your muscles for handling more dynamic contractions. Performing these drills can also reduce the risk of common running injuries, such as shin splints, and can ‘protect’ the knee and ankle joints. Always think about being ‘light’ on your feet. Aim to perform each of the exercises below over 10-15m, with a walk back or jogging recovery. It should be enough to perform 3-4 reps of each.
Other useful warm-up exercises include:
A final thought is – don’t wear shoes! No, I’m not recommending that you complete your next lactate stacker session in your socks; but, if weather permits (or you’re training indoors), performing the drills described above over very short distances without shoes can be very beneficial. Running shoes prevent the calf and achilles tendons, in particular, from optimally flexing. They also reduce the potential to specifically strengthen these areas. Increasing foot and lower leg strength can make you a more efficient runner. Why adopt a different approach?Here, then, in summary is why adopting a different approach to warming up could improve your sports performance:
Having said all this, there are times when ‘old school’ stretching is okay. Despite the marginalisation of stretching in the new dynamic warm-up, active, passive and PNF (proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation) stretching still have a very important role to play in an overall training plan. If you recognise that limitations in your current range of movement are hampering the performance of your sport, you can use these methods to develop the range of movement you require. You should do this periodically, in any case, to reduce muscle shortening and the potential build-up of muscle tightness. Note, however, that this is best done in separate sessions, away from your sport-specific workouts. John Shepherd warm up exercises
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Coach Mac
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Posted: 12/27/07 at 9:15am |
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Peter---excellent info. Myles...we have used this form of warm up since the late 1970's with only one mis-hap. I 'll show dumb bells but you can use a bar...Kettlebells ect.
We had two national class throwers come into train and they mistakenly did 5-sets of 5 on this ( its only one set of 5) as they heard me say the World Record is 275-lbs for this sequence of exercises .
The guy said (dripping wet with persperation) "If this is the WARM UP...I won't be able to do the workout"....LOL |
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Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay |
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 12/27/07 at 9:52am |
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Peter - I've always warmed up in stages like the post above. I static stretch ALL game day and between every throw , but always go do some speed movements(usually a drill) just after to get things "snappy". What krazy40 might mean is that if you're "overly stretched" rather than " overly flexible" .
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Krazy40
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Stupid Track Guy Joined: 9/12/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 949 |
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Posted: 12/27/07 at 10:01am |
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Peter, I wasn't talking about streching before working out, haha, Lord knows if my coach would have let me walk in and throw, jump, run, whatever sport i was doing at the time, I would have been a happy camper. I hate "warm-ups". That "only be as flexible as you need to be" is something I heard at a John Powell camp, so I used it in my complaints about streching, haha. Lil side note: I read somewhere the military did a test on warming up. They found that it did not help prevent injuries, but soildiers that didn't do a regular warm up were more sore (sorer? sorry not an english major) and it lasted a longer period of time. I'm sure this has since been proven wrong, but oh well, the coach bought it, haha. |
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