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Combining Throwing with Power Lifting

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thegnome View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/12/04 at 2:13am
I've only thrown a few times, but very interested in doing more.  Mostly I do PL, and am currently working to get the qualifying total for WNPF nationals.  One of the first things I figured out about throwing was that it was entirely different from PL and that the training is almost as different.  Is there anyone here that competes in both PL and Heavy Events that might be able to give some advice?  I was thinking of something like a Westside Barbell program where speed is heavily focussed on.  Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote -RP- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/04 at 3:18pm
It does have it's differences from PL but the same training principles that Westside uses for their Dynamic Effort and Max Effort days will be very helpful. What is power lifting but explosive strength. Correct? In the same respect the sheaf, WOB and caber are not much more than a glorified power clean. The hammers and WfD throws are coordinated (hopefully) explosive throws. Lastly a heavier than normal shot-put that with force on it's own will not travel very far but when combined with explosive speed has the potential to propel a 24+ pound stone 40+ feet. Louie's web site has a ton of very informative information & the videos are well worth the money. http://www.westside-barbell.com
-RP-

Clan Brown

"It's not bragging if you can do it."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joel T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/04 at 5:13pm
I have done both. Competing in a few world championship powerlifting competitions and turning pro last season. Westside has some very good ideas, but I found that you had to focus more on the explosive pulls.( cleans, snatches ,etc.) and core work. Also event specific lifting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thegnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/04 at 2:04am
Thanks, I appreciate the ideas.  I've never really done snatches before (a few times with dumbells, but that's it)  Any good Olympic Lifts internet or book resources? (finding someone to teach me is unlikely, unless they are a cow, because I live in the middle of NOWHERE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coach Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/04 at 3:37am
A POWER lifting Gnome...H'mmm... this
conjures up visons of an oxymoron...I LIKE it !!!

Check out the Coach Mac website

http://www.myschoolonline.com/site/0,1876,1215-
197744-1-89144,00.html

...there is a bunch
(93 pages) of related info on there...including some
sequnces of the snatch for THROWING !!!

There is also JUST OUT...one of the most
comprehensive book on Lifting and Strength
Training I've ever seen ESSENTIALS of
WEIGHTLIFTING and STRENGTHTRAINING (I think
that iI've read ALL of
them...grin )

Don't faint when you see the price ( retail
$99) it's worth it...I've been told I can get them 50%
off...e-mail me for info at:
CoachMac2003@hotmail.com

Have an informed Day! mac~

Edited by Coach Mac
Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay
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thegnome View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thegnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/04 at 1:36am
Coach Mac, just got to the web page and all I can say is...WOW...Thank you.  Looks like it's going to take awhile to through all of that info.  Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andre_Mazerolle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/04 at 12:37pm
Just checked Amazon.ca (should be similar on .com) and the book the Coach mentioned is:

Essentials Of Weightlifting And Strength Training
by Mohamed F. El Hewie (Author), MOHAMED F. EL-HEWIE (Author)


US List Price: USD $65.00
CDN Equivalent: CDN$ 77.84

Live life like you mean it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/04 at 7:03am
GNOME - Also check out all Coach Mac's plyometric jumping and speed programs - gotta get fast - will make you better...promise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skullsplitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/04 at 4:03am
Amen Big Mike.  Movement should be fast.  Another thing that I have started to think about with weight training, which should be an adjunct to throwing and not the pure focus of training, is starting strength.  In other words, how quickly can you start the bar from the floor with your snatch, clean and high pulls.  Being able to exert the force in the least amount of time over a distance is POWER...the essence of throwing.  How many muscular hulks are the best throwers, versus the best throwers who train for power.  The guys who are muscular still have speed in the throwing movements, Brebner, MacDonald, Smith, Pulcinella to name a few.  Sport specific lifting such as cleans and snatching into a split is an example. Coach Mac, weigh in on those thoughts. 
"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/04 at 4:57am
Gnome- Are you a lifter or a thrower? Some are both, sure, BUT the #1 way to throw farther is to go get lessons from somebody good - Vierra came to Austin a coupla years ago and everyone in central Texas is better now because of the ripple effect from that one Sunday afternoon(we went from 2 A's in the state to 6) - THEN take that info and get a little obsessed with plain old throwing . What will make you throw farther ?- a day of lifting or making a technique break through? Like Bill says , great throwers come in 2 types- #1 big,strong buggers who can throw or #2 people who can throw(seems to be more of these). I have improved greatly this year because I threw ALL year like Parman said (AND FINALLY figured out a coupla events that were killing me- 56thro and hammer)- not because I got stronger because I didn't - I hope I became a better THROWER - it's what we do.If you have a power lifting background, you're already strong - NOW, let's become a better and faster THROWER.Lift to throw.Buy implements and wear 'em out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coach Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/27/04 at 6:23am
What is easier...lifting weights for 45-minutes...or
trying to make a motor pattern change in a particular
throw ? MOST ( I would venture 90%- plus) will take
the
bait and head for the wt-room (Dare I say: bench
press... )

I had the pleasure of being invited to Ryan Vierra's
and Mike Smiths Clinic prior to Pleasanton and Ryan
mentioned a point that no one re-acted too...the
quote
" If I'm having a problem in the hammer I go out and
THROW it for 1 1/2 hours...! "

Too compound the problem...IF you get you strokes
from the wt-room (you are reading this from a
RE_FORMED 3-days a week squatter ...495-lbs. for
10 ...first set of heavy box squats...NO SH_ _ !!!)
human nature is at work hear...DON'T be
HUMAN...work on your WEAK LINKS...!

I'm sure Ryan will tell you that his flexibility is better
this year ( ) ...!

Good luck to all in the off season !!! mac~

P.S. To those of you who have written about online
coaching...I have a couple of slots OPEN..!
CoachMac2003@hotmail.com

Edited by Coach Mac
Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thegnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/04 at 6:08am
Coach Mac, Had a chance to review your site, and got some info from USA Weightlifting.  I started doing snatches yesterday and it was....humbling.  (Now I really understand why they squat like that.)  Now if Santa Clause will only bring me the hammers and weights I asked for.  Thanks to everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/04 at 7:36am
Originally posted by Skullsplitter Skullsplitter wrote:

Another thing that I have started to think about with weight training, which should be an adjunct to throwing and not the pure focus of training, is starting strength.  In other words, how quickly can you start the bar from the floor with your snatch, clean and high pulls.

Amen.  The Russkies demonstrated that the more advanced Oly lifters applied more force earlier in their lifts than the less experienced.  The less experienced tended to pull more evenly throughout the lift. Explosiveness is king.

-Wayne
"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Pinkerton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/04 at 11:39am
If you do not care to master the form for the snatch or would just like to work on your starting strength I would recommend speed deadlifts with or w/o bands.  They are a nice change of pace after box squating forever and are a little more applicable to the O-lifts.
"Big ain't Strong...Strong is Strong."
Visit our training page at: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Get-U-Fit-Training-Systems/ 119414814828174
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/04 at 12:00pm
Or high pulls.

-Wayne
"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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