fat burners...

Will,

  According to the WADA guidelines, the general standard for anti-doping rules (Olympics, HG, etc.), ephedrine is only banned for use "in competition". That means you are free to use it outside of competition. If you go to the WADA site you will find that stimulants of all kinds are only banned "in competition". So, as long as you don't do it at a games then "sixteen bennies and a bowl of chili*" is perfectly allowable. Certainly any stimulant fat-burner is alright.

Cheers,
  Carlos

* Challenge - Name the song and artist this line is from.

Will,

Here's a thought, consume less, or move more, or both.

I'm so generous I'm not even going to charge you for that one.

They make a pill for everything but discipline.

~Jason

"They make a pill for everything but discipline."

Wow....  can I borrow this statement?

Carlos,

With where he's headed that's not a bad idea.  Although one with Valenti shirtless would be better.

Touche!

~Jason

Geisler, use away!

Wallis,

You read this board and you think that was confrontational?

Specifically I think your nuts in the sense of the word meaning you're acting irrationally and unintelligently.  I would even use the word "stupid" in place of nuts.

Why in the world would anyone take a substance, legal or not, that makes you lose weight by sending your "cells into overdrive producing wasted heat," that, "leads to soreness, tightness and cramping?!?!"  Do people us this stuff so they know what women feel like?  As a former professional athlete (I swear Dad it's what we ARE) I can't imagine ingesting such a substance.  Maybe if all I cared about was how I looked and not how I performed but I like to think I'd still be smart enough not to.

Oh yeah, I DO know why... some people people don't have enough common sense to watch how much they eat and how much they move to produce the desired effect of losing weight.

~Jason 

Wallis....I think the main problem is you come off sounding like a "Muscle and Fiction" advertisement.  Raise metabolism 30%?!?!

Not even Dr Greg Senamone (spell?) and his corti-slim does not even get that crazy in their tv spots.

Who were these studies on? Who ran the studies? and are they published in a peer reviewed journal.  If I take 20 college students like the kids I see always in the computer lab that have never exercised a day in their lives...i could prove that spam and mayonase sandwiches will help them lose weight if I also get them exercising.  Statisitics are often built on being able to prove what you want the numbers to show.  Any long term studies on the safety and efficacy?

What metabolic pathways are stimulated by this "supplement"....what affect on the bodies other systems....as an athletic trainer who sees the effects of overheating in athletes I would see this as not a good thing.  Wasted heat has to be reduced somehow and the body is usually very effecient but troubles can arise.  What about tolerance to the supplements...do you have to take more later.  The overproduction of heat by tissues may be catabolic in nature...something has to fuel the fires and it is not always glucose/glycogen and adipose tissue that provides that fuel.  Often proteins are called in to feed the fire.

If it was truly that effective the pharmaceutical companies/govenment  would have already shut it down and made it available only thru prescription. 

I think Will's original question though had to deal with legality or rules of competition.   Depends on the drug test I guess.  Every year there are many athletes who fail tests and blame supplements...including Rafael Palmeiro.  On many occasions independent labs have tested the supplements and found other items in the product not listed.  So taking supplements is at your own risk.  Know your companies I guess.  Too much caffeine is illegal.  It is alot you need to take or ingest.  Many medicines both over the counter and prescription will cause you to fail a test.  Always have proper documentation.  At the college level we always check into any prescription drugs are athletes are taking and make sure we have all paperwork in order, check with physicians for alternatives for the athletes etc.

So for supplements especially thermogenics....take at your own risk!

Just for the record, there is also thryoid hormone that could be used for metabolic enhancement purposes.  It's available, legally, in liquid format and I believe it is still legal in pill format as well.

Many people are concerned with using thyroid, specifically T3, the thyroxine version, the active form of thyroid in the body, because they feel that A) It will disrupt their own thyroid production or B) It will eat away all their muscle mass leaving them weak and small.1

The way I would use the T3 is at a daily dose of 25mcq.  This dose will actually promote protein anabolism, thus it will not promote protein catabolism (muscle loss) and at that dose, though blood work would have to be performed to know the exact level of increase, the blood levels should increase to somewhere between 2-2.5 which keeps your body running at a "High" normal level or what some might call optimal.  With a properly adjusted diet and continued weight resistance training along with some moderate, low intensity aerobics, an individual should see some very pleasing results in the fat loss department and will probably feel much better as well.

Oh I should also note, that yes taking an exogenous source of thyroid will in all liklihood alter your own endogenous production.  Again blood work can verify things exactly, but most individuals, even as young as those hitting their late 20's will have blood work that reflects in all liklihood "normal" levels of thyroid, however on the low side of normal.  This will continue as a downward trend with age as the bodies hormonal systems start to "deteriorate" with age.  Most individuals would find a small exogenous source of many hormones to be extremely beneficial to the quality of life as they age.

Just wanted to throw that one out there for you.

P.S. - Ephedrine, the chemical version of Ephedra is still available as I'm sure most of you know at gas stations and some bodybuilding supplement websites for an increased cost over what it use to be sold for.  It is also now "cut" with an additional expectorant to "dirty" up the purity of the Ephedrine so that the jerks that were using the pure Ephedrine for their date-rape drugs can't do that any longer.  However on the upside, the Ephedrine still works just fine with the expectorant in it