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Squat depth

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Nathan Parker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 12:17pm
For me, I would rank my areas to improve in this order:

1. Technique
2. Strength
3. Body weight

My technique needs work for sure, I am getting stronger every year(not where I need to be yet IMO), and the body weight has grown approx 10lbs per year for 5 years.

I'll get there, or I wont. In the meantime I'll continue to squat ATG as I have been doing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pingleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 12:39pm
I might as well weigh in here FWIW. 

In terms of "strong enough to throw far" one rule of thumb is for athletes of a reasonable size to be able to squat TWICE their bodyweight below parallel AND to be able to squat their bodyweight at a velocity of 1 meter/second, which is a very fast squat. Smaller throwers would obviously have to do more than this to be competitive, while extremely large athletes could likely get away with less.

In terms of the issue of depth, there are conflicting schools of thought. The standard for many throwers seems to be more or less around parallel, but some go very deep and many elite throwers, especially the Germans and Russians, seem to mostly do half-squats or even higher, especially in the competitive period and the pre-competitive period. Bondarchuk's athletes rarely if ever go down to parallel, as he feels half-squats and even quarter squats are much more specific. The East Germans used to go down to just below parallel for the first half of the year and then always performed half squats to a bench for the second half.

If you believe in Block Periodization, you could do deeper squats during any strength blocks and then switch to half-squats for your speed/power blocks. 

Just my thoughts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 1:45pm
I am gonna get smashed for this but here goes...I would think if you could squat 315-365 very explosively you are strong enough to throw well. After that its a ton of technique work.  

Meh its Chest and Bi's night at the gym tonight so wtf do I know?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by brandell brandell wrote:

Meh its Chest and Bi's night at the gym tonight so wtf do I know?


yikes.. well there's your problem. Everybody knows it's chest and tris, not chest and bis.

smh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 2:16pm
I was just going for a push pull type setup.

Bad Brian... Confused

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Stewart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 5:02pm
I'm with Jake on this. When I hit my biggest throw with the 56 I was 265. That is the lowest body weight I have ever thrown with. If your strong "enough" and know what the hell your doing you can throw some big numbers with the 56 without being a fat ass.
John Gallagher- "MASS MOVES MASS"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 5:23pm
Friends dont let friends squat high
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 5:49pm
I've thrown big 56's from 235lbs to 305lbs.  The bigger and stronger I was, the more consistent I became.  

Please note that I said consistency.  Just like I said several posts ago.  I didn't say bigger throws.  

When I say bodyweight gain, it's assumed that everyone knows that I also mean the strength gains that accompany such an achievement.  I have never, nor will I ever, advocate gaining fat.  

Just felt the need to say that, cause it seems that some people missed the obvious.      

It's no secret, or surprise, that the biggest 56 throws have come from some really big dudes though.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Stewart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 5:50pm
I missed it. My bad. I agree. More muscle and more strength is always better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by Ryan Stewart Ryan Stewart wrote:

I missed it. My bad. I agree. More muscle and more strength is always better.

Ya, and I assume for you that your 56 became much more consistent at 42'+ when you were 290ish vs. 265lbs, amirite?
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Ryan Stewart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Stewart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 5:55pm
Absolutely. 290 is a good number for me. I have to really screw something up to not go 42+. Little more comfortable through the trig.
John Gallagher- "MASS MOVES MASS"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

I've thrown big 56's from 235lbs to 305lbs.  The bigger and stronger I was, the more consistent I became.  

Please note that I said consistency.  Just like I said several posts ago.  I didn't say bigger throws.  

When I say bodyweight gain, it's assumed that everyone knows that I also mean the strength gains that accompany such an achievement.  I have never, nor will I ever, advocate gaining fat.  

Just felt the need to say that, cause it seems that some people missed the obvious.      

It's no secret, or surprise, that the biggest 56 throws have come from some really big dudes though.  

I'm picking up what your layin' down.  15-25 more strong Lbs on me would be great.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 6:00pm
Indeed, and it takes time.  You're traveling a road that I was on for a decade+, so I know it well.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/11/15 at 6:16pm
Yeah, for me gaining weight is about focus and commitment.  When I am focused on gaining weight and am committed to it, I gain weight.  When I'm not, I don't.  Simple as that.  I have found that when I lose a few lbs, I can get them back pretty quick though.

I'm going to go eat now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rknebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/12/15 at 12:53am
Originally posted by Ryan Stewart Ryan Stewart wrote:

If your strong "enough" and know what the hell your doing you can throw some big numbers with the 56 without being a fat ass.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rknebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/12/15 at 12:59am
For what it's worth, my furthest HWFD throw (42+)was in my 3rd highland games ever, I was the lightest I've ever thrown at (320ish, still not light), wasn't all that strong because of dealing with injury, and I had no idea what I was doing technically... I'm also pretty sure I broke 40+ ft in every game since then that year.

That's probably not all that helpful for anyone but I think it's at least interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/12/15 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by rknebel rknebel wrote:

For what it's worth, my furthest HWFD throw (42+)was in my 3rd highland games ever, I was the lightest I've ever thrown at (320ish, still not light), wasn't all that strong because of dealing with injury, and I had no idea what I was doing technically... I'm also pretty sure I broke 40+ ft in every game since then that year.

That's probably not all that helpful for anyone but I think it's at least interesting.



I have no idea what any of that means.  I guess you should weigh 320 and not train?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/12/15 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

I've thrown big 56's from 235lbs to 305lbs.  The bigger and stronger I was, the more consistent I became.  

Size matters and this is a great point. 

But more generally it's crucial to note that improving any one of the three big components - technique, strength, and size - can improve your throws. The key to effective training is figuring out how to balance the three to get the most improvement for your specific situation and goals. Over the years that I've been involved my observation is that most throwers spend way too much time on strength and not nearly enough time on technique (I get it, I love the gym too.) I almost never see a top am or any pro that I think needs to prioritize strength. In my opinion, most of them have the strength to throw farther than they do. I see a fair number of folks who need more pudding in their britches (and a few who could use a fair bit less). 

If I could only give one single piece of advice for the rest of my life no matter who I was talking to it would be the best piece of advice I ever got (from Ali Gunn): "Throw more." That fits well with something Bob McKay told me many times: "throwing IS lifting."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rknebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/12/15 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:


Originally posted by rknebel rknebel wrote:

For what it's worth, my furthest HWFD throw (42+)was in my 3rd highland games ever, I was the lightest I've ever thrown at (320ish, still not light), wasn't all that strong because of dealing with injury, and I had no idea what I was doing technically... I'm also pretty sure I broke 40+ ft in every game since then that year.

That's probably not all that helpful for anyone but I think it's at least interesting.



I have no idea what any of that means.  I guess you should weigh 320 and not train?



Weird right? I might try that but all my other events I've improved in with the training.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silverback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/13/15 at 2:23pm
Just how many people are on this list with a 2 in front of strong and in front of deep squatting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CHAD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/13/15 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Silverback Silverback wrote:

Just how many people are on this list with a 2 in front of strong and in front of deep squatting?

What does this mean?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silverback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/14/15 at 8:10am
I was asking for the list of folks that are too strong and squat too deep.  Cause I really don't think it is that large of list
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CHAD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/16/15 at 9:45am
Gotcha.  Short list.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/17/15 at 8:59am
Anyone ever deal with a "perma-sore" quad before?  My left quad above the knee has been sore for about 2 months.  Its not pain, or even an injury(I think).  Just a pain in the butt in the bottom position. 
 
I stretch it, roll it, massage it...no change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/17/15 at 9:16am
Nathan if its just above the knee that lends me to believe its tendinitis or a slight tear of the Quad/Patellar tendon above the knee you are aggravating in that position. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/17/15 at 9:30am
Originally posted by brandell brandell wrote:

Nathan if its just above the knee that lends me to believe its tendinitis or a slight tear of the Quad/Patellar tendon above the knee you are aggravating in that position. 
 
I really don't think its tendinitis.  Perhaps a slight tear?  I dunno.  I have no symptoms until I have weight on my back and I get low.
 
I wonder if it is due to the orthodics I started using a few months ago.  My hips were jacked up and my body was out of line.  Maybe that part of my quad is being worked in ways it wasn't before? 
 
Maybe I'm just getting old lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/17/15 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Nathan Parker Nathan Parker wrote:

Originally posted by brandell brandell wrote:

Nathan if its just above the knee that lends me to believe its tendinitis or a slight tear of the Quad/Patellar tendon above the knee you are aggravating in that position. 
 
I really don't think its tendinitis.  Perhaps a slight tear?  I dunno.  I have no symptoms until I have weight on my back and I get low.
 
I wonder if it is due to the orthodics I started using a few months ago.  My hips were jacked up and my body was out of line.  Maybe that part of my quad is being worked in ways it wasn't before? 
 
Maybe I'm just getting old lol.

Yes. LOL

My vote is a tear. I had one like it before and it sucked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/17/15 at 9:40am
Did you know exactly when you tore it, or did it come on gradually?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/17/15 at 9:43am
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