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Losing fat without compromising strength

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wsciscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Losing fat without compromising strength
    Posted: 1/27/13 at 6:21pm
Question about my wife and fat loss.
She is a highland athlete that just got started last year. She competed in 2 competitions and took first so she is pretty good for a newbie and she should be cause she was trained by Doug Ballard not to mention she is pretty strong. 
The question is.
How does she lose some fat and not lose any strength gains?
Here is a little bit about her:
She will be 40 years old in September this year and she has had 5 Children.
She is 5' 8" and weighs 250 pounds.
We have been doing the Texas Method workout for 5 weeks and we are
getting ready to start the Matt Vincent speed power preseason cycle.

Her lifts
squat 235 x 1
bench 155 x 2
push press 135 x 1
dead lift 260 x 1
power clean 120 x 1

We understand the benefit of mass when throwing but she would like to thin out some
and become more athletic.

Any advise would be very helpful whether it pertains to diet or exercise.
Thanks
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jim Glover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/27/13 at 6:27pm

How much low intensity cardio does she do?  

The most important thing is diet, cardio second, and weights a distant third.

Have her keep a food log for 2 weeks.  I'd almost guarantee that she'll lose a bit of weight just by tracking what she eats every day, including beverages.

And dang it's hard for women to lose weight.  So good luck to her and to you.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/27/13 at 6:45pm
Truth is she eats better than almost anyone I know.
No white bread
No white crackers
very little white pasta
very little candy/cakes/or chips
She usually has a whey protien shake in the morning
snacks on nuts threw the day and has a small lunch.
Dinner and weekends she eats more but not gorging at all.
and a protein shake before bed
She was anorexic and fought bulimia when she was a teen 
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/27/13 at 6:50pm
I'm actually in the same boat...kinda. I'm going on 46 and have started losing fat while still gaining muscle. I have some specific strength goals that I believe will help me with Highland Games events and am also a strength coach. 

Jim is correct. Diet first. For the first time ever I've adopted a bodybuilder style diet. I say "style" because I am not quite as strict as if I were competing. I eat about 1 1/2 pounds of chicken each day and throw in a little starch in the morning and greens later. I drink a lot more water and have cut down on the alcohol (as much as I'm going to anyway. I like my Rye too much to give it up for a pound or two Tongue

However; I tried the "more cardio, less strength" programming and I didn't see the results that I have lately. I've actually ramped up the strength training and assistance work and keep my cardio to about the same as I always have. I've lost 7 pounds this month but due to the increase in volume and weight training, I'm confident that it's all fat loss. That I'm able to do that while increasing muscle mass gives me hope. Feel free to pm me for more detail.

Not to be a buzzkill; however; the 40's are tough on us gals who keep weight. So losing some now would be beneficial for down the road.

jp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shawn Baker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/27/13 at 8:49pm
probably depends upon how much weight and how fast she wants to lose it (dropped nearly 50lbs my self in the last 2.5 months- definitely probably too fast by most standards but I've maintained decent strength levels- It's inevitable to lose some degree of strength/muscle with that much weight loss- enjoyed a good book by Clarence Bass- challenge yourself at any age- he's been doing the lean thing for about 45 years and is now in his mid 70's and still kicking butt- plus he lives here in town with me (plan on getting a consultation with him fairly soon)- I tend to disagree with the long drawn out cardio stuff- better to do real hi intensity interval stuff- keep hitting big muscle groups for lifting- squating, deads etc.., diet will be the biggest factor for sure- get up every morning and swing a heavy kettle bell a bunch of times- definitely feels like you've run some sprints at the end- Tabata stuff is also pretty effective- at least in my case
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 7:35am
An excellent read and resource is a book called "Better Than Steroids" by Dr. Warren Willey.  I have gone from 305lbs on Memorial Day weekend to 225lbs today and have lost only 6lbs of lean mass.  Haven't done much for cardio, lift only one to two days per week.  I don't lift for max strength like in the past since I don't throw anymore but haven't lost any strength since starting the fat loss program.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 10:59am
+1 fast hard lifting circuits 30 mins go like hell. rep ranges 8-12 - vary speed of movement and weights.

Simple nutrition plan - lean protein at every meal , fruit all morning w oatmeal bkfast , veggies and greens rest of day. No late carbs. Nuts great snack.
KISS principle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by john gallagher john gallagher wrote:

An excellent read and resource is a book called "Better Than Steroids" by Dr. Warren Willey.  I have gone from 305lbs on Memorial Day weekend to 225lbs today and have lost only 6lbs of lean mass.  Haven't done much for cardio, lift only one to two days per week.  I don't lift for max strength like in the past since I don't throw anymore but haven't lost any strength since starting the fat loss program.  


74lbs of fat loss, wow!

Lesseee....so if you're a near shredded 10% bodyfat (just a guess) now at 225lbs, then you were 32% at 305lbs.  Shocked

Good choice! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 1:12pm
That's about exactly right Craig.  I see some muscle now.  Just based calories off of BMR and then didn't go completely carb free but monitored how many and WHEN I ate them.  2 days per week of a box squat (hurts knees to do regular squats), deads, bench press at only 225lbs.  10 sets x 3 reps each exercise in a rotation with just about no rest between sets...1 minute if needed.  2 to 3 different days of 30 minutes on my elliptical machine in my garage gym.  Any carbs were done in pre and post workout meals.  Raised insulin once per day and kept it at normal levels the rest of the 24hour period.  I am done losing now.  Maintaining is the goal now.  Like I said, I was not trying to gain huge number in the weight room anymore but not everyone is looking to lose as much as I was trying to do.  But it is a good plan for anyone I think even if you want to lose some percentage points on body fat and move better and feel better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by john gallagher john gallagher wrote:

An excellent read and resource is a book called "Better Than Steroids" by Dr. Warren Willey.  I have gone from 305lbs on Memorial Day weekend to 225lbs today and have lost only 6lbs of lean mass.  Haven't done much for cardio, lift only one to two days per week.  I don't lift for max strength like in the past since I don't throw anymore but haven't lost any strength since starting the fat loss program.  
 
Not to come off like a dick but how would you know that you "havent lost any strength since starting the fat loss program" if you "don't lift for max strength" any more?
 
IMO & experience, without the assistance of drugs or "n00b gains", it's inevitable you'll lose SOME performance when dropping weight. Yes, it comes back later but that takes some decent time to build back up. I've only recently started hitting gym PRs again. I went from 305 down to 266 last year and am now sitting around 283 because I haven't counted a calorie since October. The fact of the matter is mass moves mass. Vincent Dicenzo said he went up to 330lbs to break the 600lb raw bench barrier. He has since dropped down into the 260s and is having trouble breaking past again. Just one reference of an elite lifter, I don't want to get into too much of a broscience debate.
 
With that said, I think it's relatively easy to drop weight and keep muscle, its all about nutrient timing, hitting the correct macros and overall total calories. Long bouts of cardio are useless and boring imo. If you want to do some long stuff strictly for fat loss, you've got to get fatty acids moving first and the best way to do that is by tabatas or HIIT or the like. Dropping weight and keeping performance is a whole 'nother story and takes much a much longer timeline I've found. A book I reference is "Nutrient Timing" by John Ivy and Robert Portman.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by wsciscoe wsciscoe wrote:

Truth is she eats better than almost anyone I know.
No white bread
No white crackers
very little white pasta
very little candy/cakes/or chips
She usually has a whey protien shake in the morning
snacks on nuts threw the day and has a small lunch.
Dinner and weekends she eats more but not gorging at all.
and a protein shake before bed
She was anorexic and fought bulimia when she was a teen 
 
based on this, she's eating way too few calories, which can have the opposite effect on her metabo..
 
just a thought
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 2:02pm
Well, here is exactly how I know I didn't lose any strength since starting wt/fat loss program.  It is called 'testing' lifts.  I didn't say I even started at my maxes when I was still training and competing.  That is what is meant by "since starting the fat loss program". When one retires, they most of the time don't train quite as much at when they threw so I can't compare my lifts from 2006 to when I began losing wt/fat.  I can compare my strength from when I began losing wt/fat to now.  Anything else that was hard to decipher from my post?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by jsully jsully wrote:

based on this, she's eating way too few calories, which can have the opposite effect on her metabo..
 
just a thought


I generally hate that thought. 

Dear everyone trying to gain or lose weight,

COUNT CALORIES.  How the F can you make adjustments to your eating if you don't have a grasp on what your actual consumption is?  Glenn post some actual numbers of what she's eating and the feed back you receive will be much more valuable. 


Originally posted by john gallagher john gallagher wrote:

Well, here is exactly how I know I didn't lose any strength since starting wt/fat loss program.  It is called 'testing' lifts.  I didn't say I even started at my maxes when I was still training and competing.  That is what is meant by "since starting the fat loss program". When one retires, they most of the time don't train quite as much at when they threw so I can't compare my lifts from 2006 to when I began losing wt/fat.  I can compare my strength from when I began losing wt/fat to now.  Anything else that was hard to decipher from my post?  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by john gallagher john gallagher wrote:

Well, here is exactly how I know I didn't lose any strength since starting wt/fat loss program.  It is called 'testing' lifts.  I didn't say I even started at my maxes when I was still training and competing.  That is what is meant by "since starting the fat loss program". When one retires, they most of the time don't train quite as much at when they threw so I can't compare my lifts from 2006 to when I began losing wt/fat.  I can compare my strength from when I began losing wt/fat to now.  Anything else that was hard to decipher from my post?  
 
lol, apparently I did come off as a dick.
 
I meant no disrespect, I know that you know what you're talking about so I do apologize that I came off wrong.
 
I read the post as a whole, instead of breaking it down into pieces as you did above and the post as a whole said to me that you don't train as heavy as you used to. Thats why I asked how you would know if you don't train that heavy any more. For someone like myself that is not retired, I push my limits a lot. Dropping 40lbs had a decent impact on my strength levels. It's coming back, but there was an initial impact. That's all I was trying to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Dear everyone trying to gain or lose weight,

COUNT CALORIES.  How the F can you make adjustments to your eating if you don't have a grasp on what your actual consumption is?  Glenn post some actual numbers of what she's eating and the feed back you receive will be much more valuable. 
 
indeed..
 
and for those of you that have to count calories to gain weight.. I hate your face.
 
thatisall
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/28/13 at 3:34pm
Keep that hate in mind every time the 56 doesn't feel like it's throwing you, Jakey-poo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 9:17am
Originally posted by jsully jsully wrote:

[QUOTE=john gallagher] 
With that said, I think it's relatively easy to drop weight and keep muscle

Say women in their 40's never. Wink

jp


You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote riotboo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 9:45am
Eh. She has a good bit fat to lose at this point. Strength/muscle loss shouldn't be an issue for awhile.

Cowgirl up, sweetheart.

A woman in her 40's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 9:56am
Originally posted by riotboo riotboo wrote:

Eh. She has a good bit fat to lose at this point. Strength/muscle loss shouldn't be an issue for awhile.

Cowgirl up, sweetheart.

A woman in her 40's.

Right. But the OP addressed fat loss while keeping strength. I realize I''m new here, but I try to keep things relevant to the OP. How I roll.

Sweetheart? Have we met?

jp
You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote riotboo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 10:16am
That was adressed to the op's wife, not you.

She has a lot of fat to lose. She shouldn't be compromising strength for a good 50 lbs or so.
Edit: do you think otherwise?
If so, Why?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 11:17am
Originally posted by riotboo riotboo wrote:

That was adressed to the op's wife, not you.

Ohhhhhhhhhh. MyBad! Confused Apologies. 

jp
You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by riotboo riotboo wrote:

That was adressed to the op's wife, not you.

She has a lot of fat to lose. She shouldn't be compromising strength for a good 50 lbs or so.
Edit: do you think otherwise?
If so, Why?


She only wants to lose about 20 pounds. She needs some mass for throwing.
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 10:32pm
http://picasaweb.google.com/109340388015301766056/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCLGvzN2ya6jYw#5839094072878452210
here is a couple pics of her this may help
The one in her kilt is last Sept
The dead lift is 1 week ago
she holds her fat on her mid section and back


Edited by wsciscoe - 1/31/13 at 9:32am
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 10:37pm
Just so you all know I'm not a douche bag I think she looks great.
But you know how women are LOL
I just want her to be as strong as she can and throw far.
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jeff Ingram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/29/13 at 11:09pm
Fat is not strong. Strong is strong.

Fat does not help you throw far. It does not make you move faster, or better.
Strength and fluid movement help you throw farther.

There is no need to be ripped, but there is no need to be fat either.

She should eat to drop fat and train to get strong.

I am quite certain she does not need to be 220+ to succeed in HG. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote riotboo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/13 at 5:55am
I was speaking from an Athlete's perspective, not regarding Aesthetics. I'm sure she's a fine pretty lady.
I do agree with Jeff, and I don't think one needs that much mass to be competitve with the women's weights.
 
*shrug* free advice is worth what you pay for it. Nonetheless, there are some good ideas brought up in this thread. I hope she succeeds.
 
Good Luck!
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/13 at 8:25am
Originally posted by Jeff Ingram Jeff Ingram wrote:

Fat is not strong. Strong is strong.

Fat does not help you throw far. It does not make you move faster, or better.
Strength and fluid movement help you throw farther.

I am quite certain she does not need to be 220+ to succeed in HG. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrittneyBoswell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/13 at 8:38am
Started out at 270lbs when I started throwing - I was in my own way. Nearly a hundred pounds later I throw father, move faster, feel better and body comp has changed a great deal. Just ditch the things that aren't real food, if it doesn't come from the borders (refrigerated section) of your grocery store stop eating it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/13 at 9:56am
Originally posted by Jeff Ingram Jeff Ingram wrote:

Fat is not strong. Strong is strong.

Fat does not help you throw far. It does not make you move faster, or better.
Strength and fluid movement help you throw farther.

There is no need to be ripped, but there is no need to be fat either.

She should eat to drop fat and train to get strong.

I am quite certain she does not need to be 220+ to succeed in HG. 
 
So you're saying I need to drop 10#, Jeff?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Ingram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/30/13 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by BrittneyBoswell BrittneyBoswell wrote:

Started out at 270lbs when I started throwing - I was in my own way. Nearly a hundred pounds later I throw father, move faster, feel better and body comp has changed a great deal. Just ditch the things that aren't real food, if it doesn't come from the borders (refrigerated section) of your grocery store stop eating it.
 
Good stuff.
 
My friend Josee Morneau is probably the best women's HG athlete I know personally, and she competed around 85kg or about 185.
She was also an exceptional powerlifter, Weightlifter and competed in the WSW contest while it was on.
 
I don't ever recall her talking about needing to be 200+lbs to have the "mass" required for throwing.
 
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