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Training Frequency article

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thegnome View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thegnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Training Frequency article
    Posted: 12/21/12 at 1:23pm
The new Milo has an interesting article about low frequency training especially for us old guys.  To sum up going hard 3 times every 2 weeks.  The author did some "active recovery sessions"  where he did 50% weights for the same reps. So the schedule is something like this.
Week 1: Mon - hard, Wed - active recovery, Friday: hard
Week 2: Mon - recovery, Wed - hard, Friday: recovery
 
Personally I'd rather ride a bike or hike in the woods on the recovery days but that's just me. 
 
Anyway the question is... do you think one can get stronger (especially us geezers) on 3 days / TWO weeks or even at 1x/week.  If you do a bust ass "full body" big exercise only workout? 
Andrew G

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 1:26pm
I don't necessarily hate that schedule, depending on what you do (obv), but I usually put the minimum for strength training at 2x per week. 

I think what most people don't understand is how strong you can get with sub-max weights and intensity. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

I don't necessarily hate that schedule, depending on what you do (obv), but I usually put the minimum for strength training at 2x per week. 

I think what most people don't understand is how strong you can get with sub-max weights and intensity. 

I love you man!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 2:49pm
I've always done 2 days a week. Not sure I could do more at max intensity. This is the first time of done a percentage program with sub max lifts and so far so good. Tough getting over the ego of needing to max out all the time and just stick to the schedule and get strong.   
"Breathe deeply. Refuse to be weak. Refuse to be sick. Refuse to die. Think strong and you will be." -The Mighty Atom (Yoselle Greenstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by thegnome thegnome wrote:

The new Milo has an interesting article about low frequency training especially for us old guys.  To sum up going hard 3 times every 2 weeks.  The author did some "active recovery sessions"  where he did 50% weights for the same reps. So the schedule is something like this.
Week 1: Mon - hard, Wed - active recovery, Friday: hard
Week 2: Mon - recovery, Wed - hard, Friday: recovery
 
Personally I'd rather ride a bike or hike in the woods on the recovery days but that's just me. 
 
Anyway the question is... do you think one can get stronger (especially us geezers) on 3 days / TWO weeks or even at 1x/week.  If you do a bust ass "full body" big exercise only workout? 

YES!  It can also be said you don't need more than 10 reps per big lift ( I.e. 2x5, 3x3, 5x2, 5-3-2) but I digress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg York Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 5:37pm
I'm 51 rolling on 52.  Never a strength guy, so, grain of salt.   

Last year I started the year on a throwers training program designed for High School students on twice a week schedule.   The program was a mix of one drill, one strength move (dead, squat, or  press) and 3 or 4 auxilliary moves changed up every session (planks, KBell swing, dumbbell snatch, GHS, walking lunges).   I made good sustainable progress, felt great, and was competitive enough in my age bracket in my region to have fun and take home some clanky bits.

But, when I saw how much stronger other throwers were, and, became envious of and greedy for the numbers I read on this board, I tried to up the ante with a more aggressive program, one designed for 3-a-weeks and with a much more intensive strength focus (multiple strength moves).  That program blew me out repeatedly even when I reeled it back so that the 3 workouts took a week and a half.   Worse, it made me shy away from the gym.   I suspect I just don't have enough strength training experience to have a feel for when to back down, but...

I moved better, felt better and was more enthusiastic about training and just about everything else I did when on the less intensive program.   I'm return to the lower intensity program.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by brandell brandell wrote:

 
YES!  It can also be said you don't need more than 10 reps per big lift ( I.e. 2x5, 3x3, 5x2, 5-3-2) but I digress.

I don't necessarily agree with this, however.  

If you're going to put a limiter on reps, especially in the hopes of using what's optimal, I think you have to go with Prilepin's table above a random guess like "no more than 10".  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 5:54pm
I've been doing something similar for most of this year with progress.  I'm 38. 
First two weeks are (6 total workouts):  Mon-5x5 ramp to tough 5.  Wed-5x5 with 60% speed or OL. Fri-5x5 hypertrophy (bout 80% of Monday weights).
Week of bodyweight only, then
Second two weeks (4 total workouts) : Mon-3x3 to max triple.  Thurs-3x3 speed/OL. Mon-hypertrophy. Thur-3x3 to max triple
Then another week of bodyweight only
 
I'm just a squat, press and pull person too. I do some pullthrus, hang leg raises and standing abs to finish in a circuit most days. That's all.  Takes solid 55-60 minutes with warm-up/cool down
I always feel like I need more, but it's working and time is short. Goal is HEALTHY progression.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Originally posted by brandell brandell wrote:

 
YES!  It can also be said you don't need more than 10 reps per big lift ( I.e. 2x5, 3x3, 5x2, 5-3-2) but I digress.

I don't necessarily agree with this, however.  

If you're going to put a limiter on reps, especially in the hopes of using what's optimal, I think you have to go with Prilepin's table above a random guess like "no more than 10".  

Not random, read Dan John/ Pavel's Easy Strength. Mule can confirm.  And honestly other than not doing 3x5 week one its pretty much exactly like Wendlers format. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 6:54pm
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I had a huge response typed out and somehow deleted it.  Not going to write it again.

Cliffs:

-An assignment of % of max or at least RPE should be prescribed, at a minimum, when you are telling someone about your 10 rep rule

-Pretty much every week of 5/3/1 (original format I assume you're talking about) will have closer to 20 reps than 10 reps.  Almost a 100% increase over what you're recommending.  

-Dan John has written a ton of things, and we realize he makes money off it (as done Wendler, Rippetoe, Matt Vincent, Paul Carter, Pulcinella, etc, etc...).  For everything you can show me he's said about doing less than 10 reps, I can show you stuff where's he said the opposite, about squats in particular, as well as just building mass.  


Edited by C. Smith - 12/21/12 at 8:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 9:56pm
Again not MY 10 rep rule. Total of ten working reps. Not warmups, the work sets. And WTF does it really matter anyway? I was just putting up what is in the book, as well as the latest stuff he has been talking about.

None of it FFFFFing matters anyway and life is to FFFFFing short and there are too many real problems to deal with vs. arguing bull shit lifting routines, sets and reps.

Lift, don't lift, 1000 reps a session or 2 who gives a shit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 10:08pm
Internet is obv srsbizness.

Not arguing, just discussing.

But I can see we're done, lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 11:00pm
What do you think Mr.Smith about Wendlers project frequency??limited workouts.. 24 w/outs in 30 days ?? Wendler has SOME great ideas,me and the mrs are doing this right now..it's good/ but what are your thoughts???
JUST BRING IT /

SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/12 at 10:29am
I like the idea of it. 

I would do it, but don't know anyone who has done it.  

Lemme know how it goes.  

(Maybe I'll try something like that when I get recovered from surgery)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/12 at 9:00pm
On w/ out # 6... Will keep you updated
JUST BRING IT /

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/12 at 8:25am
Honestly, when I was working out at home, I had no problem running the 531 with the BBB mods (opposing exercises) and opening 2 of those workouts with 'explosive' work and ending all with some bodybuilding.
 
So strength training 4x/week. In what boils down to playing in the 75-85% range all day long.
 
I never hit the field more overall strong than I did last year at 40 and less damaged. YMMV but if you've already laid down your meathead base, 531 is a fantastic way to keep the train rolling without going off the track.
 
One more note: never try to play the strength game against other people. It only ends in tears and injuries. You aren't them. They aren't you. Try to get stronger than the guy in the mirror and do it smart and things will fly further.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheJeff696 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/24/12 at 5:58pm
I need more meathead base



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/12 at 2:15pm
This;
Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

... Try to get stronger than the guy in the mirror and do it smart...
 
I can only add that 42 is not too late to learn either. 
 
Lower frequency push/pull/press is making better strength gains for me than all the 5 day/wk, 2-a-day gymratting I ever did. Just have to keep the cardio going, it makes me feel better than not.Smile
 
 
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No Ma'am...hot steel balls!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/03/13 at 9:03am
I have been going to the gym for a year now never on a real program. Last fall I competed in Scottish highland games for the first time and fell in love. I have 6 games picked to compete in in 2013. Needless to say I am very new. On 12-31 I started the Texas method workout (no not a new years resolution) it is a 6 week program that I planned on doing for 1 or 2 cycles.
Can you guys look at it and tell me What you think.
  http://4chanfit.wikia.com/wiki/File:Texas.png
This is a sample
Thanks
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/03/13 at 10:18am
I realized I was running around chasing my tail asking everyone this and that when I needed to think about what works best for me. I won't be putting up huge weights or anything near it, but I don't need to for me, thats not my game.
 
For me stick to the basics that make me a better thrower and try to move the bar quickly. Keep it simple, get in and get out so I can go throw. 
 
Goals now with my injury history is don't do anything that will screw me up, and looking at what everyone else does and the numbers they put up not only depressed me but started me on a path to get me injured again, including straining the crap outta my back 3 weeks ago.
 
It boils down to being smart, listening to your body and your heart, don't be what you arent. Embrace you and how you are and then figure out the best way to improve you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/03/13 at 10:51am
Wow, a 4chan link, lol. 

I didn't click it, but the Texas Method is fine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/03/13 at 11:01am
Texas Method, Starting Strength, 531. Anything simple and basic when you're starting off and, really, for long term progress is good.
 
Don't get greedy and remember that 5# or 1 rep more is still stronger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/05/13 at 11:08am
I've been reading Dan John and Pavel's Easy Strength for about the last six months. I'm on my fifth reading of it now. It's that good.

A couple of points in the book that bear out in my own training is that strength starts to diminish after two weeks without lifting. The flip side of this would be that lifting every two weeks is at least enough to maintain strength, so I'd think if you lifted with intense/light/intense cycles over two-week periods, you would get stronger.

Another thing is the idea of lifting sub-max weights to get stronger. I agree completely with the idea that you don't have to kill yourself every time you lift to make progress in strength gains. My personal experience is based on what I did with my training after reading Easy Strength the first time. I dropped my ME and near ME training and started lifting at between 70 and 80% of my 1RM for "around 10 reps" in different set schemes and started hitting PRs again, something that had been frustrating me for months.

Yeah, Gnome. I think lifting like you outlined would work out just fine.
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