WFD turns and knee ache

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   Ok, so I am really trying to work on not planting my heels during my WFD.  What I have done for ever seems to be that my feet land flat on ground and I try to turn into my second turn with feet locked down.  I am doing the same for my release.
The only way I can see to free up motion on my WFD is to practice landing on balls of feet and driving my turn with my toes first.  So I actually feel my toes digging little circles into the ground as I push my knees around and then my hips.

Now, this has led to achey knees for the last week.

Is this a lack of training so they will get better?
Or, am I doing something horribly wrong that will f up my knees?

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dl_buffy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 3/14/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1507	Post Options Post Reply Quote dl_buffy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: WFD turns and knee ache Posted: 8/06/12 at 9:24am
	Ok, so I am really trying to work on not planting my heels during my WFD. What I have done for ever seems to be that my feet land flat on ground and I try to turn into my second turn with feet locked down. I am doing the same for my release. The only way I can see to free up motion on my WFD is to practice landing on balls of feet and driving my turn with my toes first. So I actually feel my toes digging little circles into the ground as I push my knees around and then my hips. Now, this has led to achey knees for the last week. Is this a lack of training so they will get better? Or, am I doing something horribly wrong that will f up my knees?
	--------- I have very few social interaction skills, so I just throw stuff instead.

Speer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 5/04/12 Location: New England Status: Offline Points: 97	Post Options Post Reply Quote Speer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 8/16/12 at 4:16pm
	Knee and toe should be together when torquing, pointing the same direction. The trick is that its a torque rotation along with a push. Many bigger guys tend to push first and leave the rotation behind which will wreak havoc on the knee joint. I think of it as a quick full leg movement from the hip. Sounds like you have some separation possibly - leading with the knee? Go through the motion very slowly and try to debug. Move across the circle. Any large up and down jumping type movements may cause you to land too heavy thereby grinding into the ground and borking your timing - essentially being too heavy and slow to properly torque.

AlDargie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 7/27/06 Location: York, Maine Status: Offline Points: 1784	Post Options Post Reply Quote AlDargie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 8/17/12 at 5:49am
	Are you wearing cleats? If so, try going to a shoe with a less aggressive tread.
	Dyin' ain't much of a living, boy. - Outlaw Josey Wales

old fat guy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 8/02/12 Location: Arlington, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote old fat guy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 8/17/12 at 10:24am
	Just a thought: try buying a pair of track shoes that has a 7 hole spike and just put 1 spike right in the center of the ball of the foot so that you can pivot without any drag. You can buy the individual spikes any length up tp ( I think) 3/4 inch. That 1 spike is all you really need for traction except for maybe the caber toss.
	emotionally and technically challeged so I just lift, throw and overeat

M-BAAB Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 3515	Post Options Post Reply Quote M-BAAB Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 8/17/12 at 3:47pm
	Buff....before spinning , do a couple toes spin drills like shotputters do - perfect spin and land perfect slow and work to fast . W/out weight at first and then add 28 and then add 56 or 42. Also, check out your knees for that "3 inches lower than you want to be"
	51 , 72 and 15 at 50

dl_buffy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 3/14/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1507	Post Options Post Reply Quote dl_buffy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 8/20/12 at 9:01am
	Thanks for feedback, sounds like I just need to work the motions a bit more. I have never really thrown in cleats. I have the same boots I've used for years and only every packed the cleats when I thought caber might be on slippery ground.
	--------- I have very few social interaction skills, so I just throw stuff instead.

ernie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 3/11/12 Status: Offline Points: 173	Post Options Post Reply Quote ernie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 8/25/12 at 6:36pm
	funny you mention this... Sometimes after focusing on my two spin I can really mess my knee up. And by messing it up, I mean bad pain, and barely being able to walk. Like it would be with a sprained ankle. It doesnt hurt immediately, it usually takes a day when you start to feel the pain.
	Philippians 4:13

Dan Szepesi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 10/22/12 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan Szepesi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10/23/12 at 4:52pm
	For what its worth, I am a big fat dude and was experiencing pain in my knees after throwing WFD. I pulled the spikes from my track shoes so I can rotate better on my toes, focused on staying off my heels (thanks Duncan) and did not have any knee pain after my last event.

Duncan McCallum Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 12/07/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7442	Post Options Post Reply Quote Duncan McCallum Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10/26/12 at 5:24am
	Echoing what most everyone said (I wish you'd have said something at Celtober!) you have to start low and slow. I've got the worst knees in this thread, and the twist and drive of the WFD/OStone was definitely on my mind after surgery. Watched a ton of video, made a bunch of phone calls, and came up with the following maxims: 1. Get the right shoes. No football cleats/soccer cleats. Granted, these might work for some folks, but folks with knee pain want to avoid a shoe where the spike plate/outsole is one piece with really aggressive teeth. Locking that up in dense turf is bad news all day. 2. You must stay on the balls of your feet. When your heel strikes the ground and BANG you think it's time to drive, you really just end up locking the knee and twisting over/across it. I've watched Big Dan do this a few times, and myself 100's of times on video: We start a rotation on our toes and immediately transition our bodyweight to our heels. Knee straightens out, we screw up, and ouch. 3. SHHHHHHHHHH!!! Quiet in the trig. Big hops and jumps make noise; being quick and graceful is quiet. 4. Baab's knee-bend...I mention this all the time. That extra 2 or 3 inches only takes half a second to do, but puts you in a much better position (more stable) to sprint to the trig. Remember: Bending the knees and just leaning over aren't the same thing. 2-3 inches...that's all it takes. 5. Rotational to linear drive. If you keep twisting you are going to stay twisted up. Starting with a rotation (to get the weight moving and set up the sprint phase) and then driving straight to the trig bar/board cuts down on those points where one's feet will be planted and one's body will be twisting around/across. IME if you can do the above you can move faster and maintain more efficient positions for WFD throws. You're not going to be in contact with the ground any longer than you need to be...as you approach that OH NO point of over-rotation you're already moving forward again. It's your gang Dave.
	The man in the arena.

Dan Szepesi Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 10/22/12 Location: Fort Worth, TX Status: Offline Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dan Szepesi Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10/26/12 at 6:28am
	And of course #2 is harder than it seems when you are carting about a sphere of ill-begotten gains around your waistline. Height is not the only reason I get called Big Dan. I added calf raises to the lifting mix, hopefully that will help elevate the massiveness. Other than finding fairy dust to lighten the load, I'm hoping reps focusing on staying on my toes yet keeping knees bent will help.