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WOB (another Q) - swing or pull? |
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dl_buffy 
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Joined: 3/14/07 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1507 |
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 Topic: WOB (another Q) - swing or pull?Posted: 3/14/12 at 4:31am |
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Ok, this is one that seems to go back and forth. (Maybe either can work depending on thrower?)
When I do WOB I am pulling in a way that lets the weight swing out and up, so in an arc, to my release. This has gotten my 56 to hit the bar at 16' (PR is 15.6").
Then I read (or hear) these occasional comments about snatching the weight, trying to pull it up instead of swing it out.
The reason this is still a question to me is that I am not sure I have actually seen anyone snatch the weight up, it appears they are all swinging the weight?
Is there a preferred approach for this part of throw? Or does it come down to personal preference/
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I have very few social interaction skills, so I just throw stuff instead. |
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Tim P
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Joined: 1/17/11 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 408 |
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Posted: 3/23/12 at 3:40am |
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I was kinda hoping to see a response to this post.
I have heard it "coached" both ways. But in all the video I see of good throwers (not me) they aren't snatching it at all from what I see. It looks more like a straight arm whip in somewhat of an arc. My impression is that the movement is similar to the movement of a trebuchet. Anyone with a better grasp on Newtonian physics or familiar with medieval siege engines care to comment?
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TheJeff696
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Posted: 3/23/12 at 4:05am |
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Paging Dr. Meulenberg...
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Jeff Kaste
"I think there's a Squatch in these woods..." |
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 3/23/12 at 10:07am |
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Pulling swing!
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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rknebel
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Posted: 3/26/12 at 4:24am |
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Watch the Vincent brothers throw WOB. They both pull like they are snatching the weight over the bar. The weight still swings out because they are swinging a 56lb weight between their legs prior to their attempt to pull it over the bar. The momentum of the weight creates the arc. Althought it appears that they are just swinging it out and up they are actually trying to pull the weight straight up and over. It is more of a direct transfer of power into the weight. I guess what I am trying to say is that the look of the throw between someone who is pulling or swinging the weight is very similary although "in my opinion" the result is quite different. When I first started throwing I tried to swing the weight up and over and could barely clear 13'. In the off season I was told to pull the weight like I was completing a 1 handed snatch and without practice cleared 15' and barely missed 16' in my first game.
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Daniel McKim
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Posted: 3/27/12 at 9:39am |
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I've modeled my WOB technique after Zolk. His low, calm swing seems to put me in a much better position for a long, explosive pull on the weight. I've done the hard, high swings in the past, but my absolute best pulls are when I'm trying to pull like Zolk. YouTube his WR throw and you'll see it. Fluid -- he never fights the weight, which seems to allow for a nice, long arm.
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Tim P
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Posted: 3/27/12 at 12:20pm |
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Video of Zolkiewizc;
Video of Matt Vincent Video of Dan McKim Video of Andy Vincent and left handed... Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there but it looks (to me) like the "snatching" is occuring up to the point where the weight gets to about belly level, give or take. After that the back mostly continues arching backward until the weight is at/above head height. Arm stays "straight" the whole way. The arm pivots at the shoulder and seems to "swing" up. The amount of back arching seems to be variable but no upright torso position is seen (as far as I can tell) between weight lowpoint and up to/after release/recovery. I guess when the question of "pull or swing?" gets asked it's because when some of us (like me) hear "snatch" we think "pull like a snatch the whole way"...then we involve WAAAAAY to much upper body and arms past the point where we shouldn't at all AND we don't "lean back" (sic) enough after the weight has passed our hips and let the shoulder and hips act as pivot points. When we hear "pull" we think "Oh, so involve my biceps and bend at the elbow after I get it past my hips, and stay close to the weight like a snatch..." which, I think, is WRONG. ?  By way of comparison, I don't see as much arching of the back or any straight arm "swings" in these; Andy Vincent 1-arm snatch. 2004 Athens Olympic snatches, Heavyweight, Rezazedeh, et al That's why my reference to a trebuchet for WOB. It's the only thing I can think of that mimics this movement, from what I can see. Although the direction of throw is different(out vs. up), I think the mechanics are similar; A swing arm(torso) attached at a pivot point on a main frame(legs/hips) with a sling(arm) attached to the distal portion of the swing arm (at the shoulder) and a projectile(56lb weight) at the end of the sling. Am I over thinking, over analyzing this? So is it really "Pull and Swing?" Am I talking out of my ass? Is the answer really 42?  |
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"What's the matter boy? you got ants in your pants?
No Ma'am...hot steel balls!" Jerry Clower |
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Andy Vincent
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Posted: 3/27/12 at 3:23pm |
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I've gone to copying Zolk also...see a trend here?  The short answer is it's absolutely a pull and swing, and your trebuchet analogy is dead on IMO.
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Tim P
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Posted: 3/27/12 at 4:14pm |
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Thanks for your response Andy... I have been hesitant to even spend much time practicing WOB for fear of practicing bad habits and bad form. I have heard WOB "coached" as a "one-arm snatch" but that never really made sense to me. "Trebuchet" is what I kept seeing...must be the D&D nerd in me.
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"What's the matter boy? you got ants in your pants?
No Ma'am...hot steel balls!" Jerry Clower |
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dl_buffy
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Posted: 3/28/12 at 3:33am |
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Hey, I totally get what you are saying Tim, hence the question. :^) But I will sit down and look through all those vids again.
I did try to add that deep reach that both Dan and Andy have in videos, but WOW did that change my technique. It felt like I had no snap, like it was too long (time) a pull. I'll try it for a few more practices and see if I can get the feel for it.
Normally I get to about 45 degree lean on upper body, then a short quick sit on the weight and snap/jump the legs. That flat out lay on the legs almost is very different.
(Oh, and not only do I know what a trebuchet is, the GF want's to build one, so lot'sa nerds around. :^D)
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I have very few social interaction skills, so I just throw stuff instead. |
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