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Killer Rabbit
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Joined: 5/06/05 Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Topic: wfdPosted: 3/07/12 at 3:19am |
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A few years back I found a break down of the wfd positions on one of the canadian organizations' forum sites. I do not remember which organization it was ,it was possibly posted by frozenkilt. It explained the positions in relation to a clock face. I feel it is the best written explanation of the wfd's out there. I've been trying to track it down and was was looking to see if anybody here is familiar with the post I am refering to?
Thank you for any help Kris Davis |
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C. Smith
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Retired Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Antarctica Status: Offline Points: 6661443 |
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 3:25am |
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I'm sure Sean will know exactly what you're talking about and will post when he sees this.
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Sean
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9th Best in the World - 2010 Joined: 12/05/06 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3759 |
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 10:19am |
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That Frozenkilt guy's an asshole.That being said, here's the breakdown. I go back and forth on how much I like how I described this and I've tweaked it a little over the years but I think overall it's not too bad:
HWFD
"How did it go that far? You look so SLOW." Mike Staal said that to me in Calgary this year after my first throw with the 56. This event has become something of my pet throw this year, so I figured I'd actually try to pass on some of the stuff I've been working on for it. Some quick notes: 12:00 is the trig, 6:00 the back line. I'm also assuming right handed throwing. 1. Be aggressive. This thing isn't like the 28. It can't be physically manhandled at the last minute, so you've got to get it moving. Right from the first cast, get it moving. 2. Stay low. Right from go. Stay low the whole way. It's your legs that will drive this thing, not your upper body. 3. On the initial cast, let it go behind you further than you think. Let it sink and pull up and around until your arm is at about 5:00 before you start to spin yourself. If you pull it around enough, you should pretty much turn in place. I've seen the term "replace your feet" before. 4. Staying low, WAIT WAIT WAIT for the implement to hit 6:00, then go past it to about 5:00 or so before pulling up and around again to move into your second turn. This is your second cast. Again, it should be aggressive. 5. When you land for the release, resist the temptation to pull immediately. You have nothing but time on your side with this. WAIT for it to hit 6:00 (and I am assuming you are facing 3:00 now) or basically wait for the implement to line up with both of your feet. 6. Now drive forward with the hip, explode upward with the legs and THEN pull with the arm, keeping your head high. You want to end with your body tall and trying to pull UP, not crouched and trying to pull the weight forward. Your last drive to the trig should take care of the forward momentum. That's pretty much all I do for it. In short: 1. Stay low. 2. Be aggressive on all three casts (initial, second, final pull) 3. WAIT WAIT WAIT. I can't emphasize this enough. As long as there is tension on the chain and your arm, you're fine. 4. Drive UP with the legs on the last pull and then pull hard with the arm AFTER the weight hits 6:00. For drills, try to go through the footwork as casually as possible and get it out as far as you can with minimum effort. Out of 10 or so throws, only 1 or maybe 2 need to be all out and even then, only the last pull should be any harder. Adding power to a throw is easy. Teaching your feet where to go is hard. Some quick notes, like the 56: 12:00 is the trig, 6:00 the back line. I'm also assuming right handed throwing. 1. On the first turn, be casual. 28# really isn't that hard to force to go somewhere. Think about casting the weight AROUND your body rather than forward. Also, give it a bit of an upward angle. That will be needed later. 2. Just like the 56, you should stay low. Right from go. Stay low the whole way. It's your legs that will drive this thing, not your upper body. 3. On the initial cast, let it go behind you further than you think. Let it sink and pull up and around until your arm is at about 5:00 before you start to spin yourself. If you pull it around enough, you should pretty much turn in place. I've seen the term "replace your feet" before. Again, this part is just like the HWFD but you need to pull it a whole lot less. 4. Staying low, WAIT WAIT WAIT for the implement to hit 6:00, then move into your second turn. This is your second cast. And now it's time to give it a little more force. You want to start to sprint toward the front left corner of the trig. This will open your hips up more. 5. When you land for the release, resist the temptation to pull immediately. You have nothing but time on your side with this. WAIT for it to hit 6:00 (and I am assuming you are facing 3:00 now) or basically wait for the implement to line up with both of your feet. 6. Now drive with the hips, explode upward with the legs and THEN pull with the arm, keeping your head high. You want to end with your body tall and trying to pull UP, not crouched and trying to pull the weight forward. Your last drive to the trig should take care of the forward momentum. That's pretty much all I do for it. In short: 1. Stay low. 2. If you can't speed up your second spin, SLOW DOWN YOUR FIRST ONE. That way when you go up to normal speed, you're still adding force to the implement. 3. Wait just enough for the feet and implement to line up before either recasting or before giving that last pull. 4. Drive UP with the legs on the last pull and then pull hard with the arm WHEN the weight hits 6:00. For drills, try to go through the footwork as casually as possible and get it out as far as you can with minimum effort. Out of 10 or so throws, only 1 or maybe 2 need to be all out and even then, only the last pull should be any harder. Adding power to a throw is easy. Teaching your feet where to go is hard. It really is a different throw from the 56 in that you don't have quite as much wait time, but you still have it. Again, it's better to go painfully slow on your first spin and add force by getting up to your one spin max speed on turn two. |
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Greg York
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Joined: 11/08/11 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 594 |
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 10:31am |
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Sean -
I have a problem landing the second turn. I hit right foot first, seem to drift/weight shift toward the trig, then plant the left foot. At the point where I pull and lift, I end up doing a heal pivot on my right foot because my weight is centered. I know this is draining power. It's easy enough to feel the different in strength and duration of a toe pivot and a heal pivot. But I'm not sure how to visualize what I need to do/change. I'm wondering if you have a recommendation on how to visualize that landing. Are feet supposed to land simultaneously (or in very rapid succession) to minimize drift? You can see the heal pivot here at about 12 seconds:
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Watch for falling rocks!
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Killer Rabbit
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 11:31am |
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Sean, That is the one. As I wrote it is the best written description of the hwfd positions I have come across in the 10 years I've been trying this game. I try to explain it like this to beginners but always miss something. Thank you for reposting this.
Kris Davis
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Sean
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 12:48pm |
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Greg,
You're way more right than wrong in that video. I'm going to preface this by pointing out that I am in no way, shape or form even good at this event but we can hope for some of that "those who can't do...teach" mojo or something. To answer your question, yeah. Ideally the feet land a little closer to the same time but it's not exactly simultaneous. I think the biggest things you could do would be to a) put a little more knee bend in there and keep it. b) wait a heartbeat longer before you transition again. The other trigger you can try for that is "sink". You don't necessarily HAVE to actually sink, but it's a decent trigger and it may keep you with "soft" knees. This is especially true on your last one where you "spun through" the release a little. Mind you, your legs were already pretty much straight, so it's hard to get a good lift with the hips and legs. The hardest thing to do while driving into each turn with the hips is to fight the urge to lift the weight into the turn by extending the legs and hips too far. It makes the next turn almost completely a pivot instead of a powerfully blocked extend and drive. Here's a great vid of some of the best (ignoring the fact that I would have fouled Betz and Brock in a heartbeat. Dirty pro cheaters |
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Sean
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 12:49pm |
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Ryan and Greg especially have a nice little heartbeat pause before the next spin. That's where they're adding the power.
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Greg York
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 2:20pm |
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Thank you, Sir! That heel pivot's showing up in stone, too. Figured it to be something related to timing, placement and/or blocking. Cheers!
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Watch for falling rocks!
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Sean
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Posted: 3/07/12 at 2:52pm |
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Shockingly in a speed sport, when it doubt: wait a little longer.
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BenEdwards
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Posted: 5/19/14 at 2:27am |
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Great tips here! I printed off the points on HWFD especially and will be studying them and putting them to use as soon as I build a homemade HWFD.
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http://goalorientedtraining.wordpress.com/
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