Sheaf drills

*** note***  I am not a coach although I play one on TV..HAHA

I would assume that with the sheaf it would be similar training as the WOB event training.  It is most closely realted to a hang clean(kind of)   where it is key to explode from a power position leading with the hips and legs then the upper body is passive and mainly giudes the motion..  In talking to RYan V it seems that he has found Jump shrugs(please check with him on this) for WOB and I bet that would be great for the sheaf as well..

I do know a few athletes who do some "sheap" drills but I do not even want to go there>>>>

Brian, I know I owe you an email on this topic. Being lazy, but I will get back to you on it.

One thing I have to disagree with is the use of heavy bags; that's a dangerous exercise and unneeded. If you practice with a heavy bag and it feels like it's not tearing your arm off, then you're not violent enough with the bag to begin with. Work five points with the standing sheaf:

1) Always practice with a bag 2 lbs lighter than in competition. That's a Satchwell trick. You'll get more throws in, and believe me, you can't tell the difference once in competition.
2) With arms perfectly straight, swing the fork back as far as you can, then get it back six more inches. This means putting your chin well into your left shoulder on backswing. My backswing forces me to jump into the air a bit. Never bend your arms!
3) Dip the knees and drive the bag into your right foot. By the time the bag is speeding to the center position, your body will counter by trying to extend or stand up. You're going into the high pull phase, and the bag is moving in a V pattern instead of an arc. This is a Karl Dodge trick.
4) Before coming up on your toes, bring hip pop into play by locking down the left leg. Now you are countering the bag and rotating/driving your hips in the direction of the bag at the same time. Think exaggerated hip shove like Tiger does when he drives a golf ball.
5) Most importantly, the standing throw is a perfect mix smoothness and absolute violence. Practice a flowing technique like sheaf kung fu, but think in your head that you're going to rip the burlap bag right off the sheaf.

K-Monster,

You are a very good student!

Ryan,

The mistake most make when trying to spin with the sheaf is that they cast the sheaf around in a circle.  When you cast the sheaf, cast it in a straight line towards the standards.  Leave it hanging there.  You then spin yourself (not the sheaf) into position.  This will put you in a position to throw with the bag still high and tightly wrapped.  At this point follow the rest of Kearney's tips.  As you get the technique down you can then work on increasing the speed that you spin with.  You will develop a stronger stretch reflex with the added speed and it will increase your throwing height.  Becareful of those around you as you reach this "terminal velocity".  Sometimes the bag comes off....sometimes.

Oh ya, another point.  Do NOT stab the fork through you knee at this "terminal velocity".  You may not be as...uh...lucky, as Greg.

Brandall, I appreciate you. I can always count on you to get all pissed off anytime someone doesn't think exactly like you do. Listen, I apologize that the Burchett boys are doing so well in your old weight class and I understand that since they are spinning, at least you can deny them the outright WOB record. However, can I just ask some questions. Tim does happen to train with Sean Betz who happens to do "OK" with the spin on the WOB and sheaf. 

Now, after saying that, as much as I am shocked, stunned and staggered at this, I do agree with you on some points. For instance, the 190 weight class moving up to at least 200. Even if they go to 220, I will never drop down, so again, this doesn't effect me in anyway but it seems silly that most games will have 20-30 over 190 throwers and then 5-10 190's. I also understand about your point on the Heavy Hammer since we are in the same area and I don't do too many games that has a heavy hammer. That is just like the west coast not doing the sheaf as often.

Lastly, I was actually hoping on here because after my post asking Tim about the spin, I went out to my brothers and threw the sheaf and what Kearney said up there, (I assume K-Monster) I went out and that helped me tremendously so Kearney, you do not know me but thanks, the way you described things clicked with me and I honestly went out and throwing the 20# sheaf was throwing about 1 foot higher than I have been the last few practices and on 2 throws really caught it and looked like I went up about 2 feet farther than I had been. I really appreciate your comments they helped a great deal. I am not using the spin on the sheaf but I am spinning on the WOB and can throw about 6 inches higher using the spin. I practice both and fortunately I suck so bad that neither way will make me competitive but I am keeping PR's in contest for both ways.

Brandall, I understand your stance on people spinning and it making you angry, and teenagers tearing up the lightweight class, and even when you got all pissed off because a pastor can't afford the "popular" crowds expensive kilts and wants to make sure the Sport Kilt is OK. (That just confirmed my thought that you were that popular kid in school that made fun of the kids that there parents couldn't afford the expensive clothes. However, could you try and at least see other peoples points. This is a message board so people can get other perspectives and other peoples points, you should start a Brandall board for people to go to so they can learn what to believe and how to think the Brandall way.

You know Brian, probably half of my quotes on this board are to argue with you. I enjoy it and I hope you do to.

Guys, let us have fun with our strange endeavors together. I've had a few good throws with the spin, and in the first part of 2003 I had it cranking pretty good all the way up to 31'. But it just got too erratic for me and I haven't been able to get the magic back. The spin is a great technique, but the trade-offs and comparisons may end up being a lot like comparing the glide and the full spin shot.

The full spin has more potential, but even after all these years, it's still erratic. The show at the 2004 Olympics was just about as pathetic as it gets. Just like the glide, the standing sheaf puts one at a disadvantage, but it lets you hit the positions a lot more reliably throw after throw. 

Tedd Van Vleck wrote: Tim, Could you go into more detail on the part between casting and starting your throw. What I mean is, I am standing there facing the standard. I cast the sheaf toward the standard and spin into the power position. I have only tried the spin a handfull of times but the sheaf is sliding down the fork before I even start my pull so by the time I checkmark it and start up it is flying straight off to the side. So I know I need to tweek something in the time that I cast up and turn the fork to start down. Keep in mind, I am fat, unflexible and slow. Which may play a small part in this.

Tedd,

I guess I did forget to mention what direction I am facing when I throw the sheaf, that's kind of needed.  When I lead into the cast my left shoulder (the side of the fork holding the bag) is closest to the standards.  That is how I am able to cast the bag "toward the standards" without casting in a circle.  Try not to cast the bag to far out though.  There is a happy medium between casting the bag "out" and casting it "up".

Usually if the bag is sliding off it is due to too much time between the set up and the on coming torque or the bag is not "wrapped" enough.  Once you get the cast down you will find that this issue of the bag falling off the fork is completely be eliminated.  I am finding describing this is much harder than showing it.  If I'm not being clear...tell me.

If you could see it that would be great.  I had tried it a couple of times but it wasn't until I saw Sean do it that it finally clicked.  I can't remember if Thom knows how to spin or not but if he could give you an example it is much easier after you have seen it!  I guess Thom will be biased though.  He, like Kearney, uses the stand, and for good reason! It works better for them.  Can you blame them?  I'd use what ever works better too.