Gerd Kanter squatting

Just in case anyone misunderstood some of my recent posts to mean that throwers don't have to be very strong, this is a video of Gerd Kanter sqautting back in 2005.  Kanter is the the 2007 World Champion in the discus and achieved the 3rd best discus result ever in 2006 with a toss of 73.38m.  Keep in mind that he is about 6'5" tall or so and is also extremely explosive, with an amazing overhead shot toss.  He is considered relatively weak in the realm of the world's top throwers.

Gerd Kanter squat video

Gerd Kanter - squat 3x250kg

Gerd Kanter training camp in San Diego 2005

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENOkD22kg38

Team75plus.com

 

Edited by Peter Ingleton

Peter Ingleton wrote:   He is considered relatively weak in the realm of the world's top throwers

 

Whoops, just saw this. 

Craig,

1. The point at the end you noticed later is significant.

2. The guy throws the discus, which only weighs 2kg, or 4.4 lbs.

3. The fact that he is about 6'5" tall has to be taken into consideration, although point #1 still holds.

4.  Further to the point I was trying to make in some of my recent posts about the distinction between strength and explosiveness, although Kanter is considered relatively weak for a top thrower, or even a top discus thrower (almost all of whom are very tall), his PR in the overhead toss with a 16# shot is 21.78m, or at least 71'5", which is superb (although a few other tall, strong throwers have done better).  The discus obviously lies more toward the speed end of the speed-strength continuum than most of the HG events, but I believe the general point still holds.  At the upper end of performances, with athletes who have developed at least a reasonably high level of basic strength, speed-strength, or what the eastern Europeans call "special strength" becomes more important than basic limit strength, particularly during the competitive season.

Having said all that, many of the world's best T&F throwers, especially the shot putters, are seriously strong by any definition. 

 

Good points guys. Obviously the lighter the impliment, the more it relies on speed-strength than load strength. Less tension, but with higher speed. Yuri Sedyk (hammer work record holder 287') was 6'2" 242 with modest strength numebrs (375 clean, 585 squat etc.) but had very high "special strength" results. he would throw 35lb. hammers in short wires, do plate twists with 2-3 20k plates etc. I spoke with him, he said his lifting was broken down into olympic lifts, legs and special. he never went for a max in the weightroom, lifting for him (and many of the Russian athletes) was for "exercise". Note: a 375 clean when you just consider it "exercise" is VERY strong, I am sure he could have been in the 400 club if he wanted. He threw a lot and developed specific strength for HIS EVENT. His event was not lifting, it was throwin far, breaking World records and winning olympics, all of which he did. The guy had something like 267 throws in competition over 80m (263') by the way, 80m would almost always medal in any recent Olympics.

I also know a jav thrower who became "too strong for the impliment". He was 6' 205lb. with a 275 snatch and 380 clean, and high 500 squat. He pulled so hard on the jav, he cracked a rib! He was told not to lift for almost a year, and threw further. He WAS a genetic freak from a freak family (his brother glide shot putted almost 69').

These are extreme cases, and IN NO WAY am I saying that any of us here are "too strong for the impliment". Our events are heavier, so we need to be stronger than the average discus thrower, who deals with he lighter impliment BUT speed still needs to be a factor to look at.

It seems like the guys with HUGE wt. room numbers have those numbers because that is what they dig, and what they feel they need to throw far. If the spent 20% less time in the wt room, and 20% more time doing drills, specific strength stuff, and recovery methods would they throw further? Maybe. Would they enjoy their time in this sport more? Who is to say? Do what makes you happy.

Difference is cool. Open minds and exploration is cooler.

If Gerd Kanter decided to throw HG, he would be squatting 700 for reps, and would weigh well over 300 I'm sure. This guy is a superior field athlete by any definition. The athlete with a genetic gift for a general area of athletics first is primary, training for the specific event is secondary. My guess is that Kanter is more likely in the ballpark of Gunthor for strength potential, and less likely to be someone with just normal strength capability.

Back overheads are a general measure of explosiveness - your back overhead distance will be close to your shot distance. What's interesting about Kanter's throw is that with such a short distance of force applied to the ball, he still threw it over 21 meters, which is massive.

Eclipse wrote:  I would hope my overhead toss would be further than my poor puts. Is tested performed with a 16lb shot?

Yes, the test is performed with a 16# shot, although the movement can be done with shots of various weights or even smooth stones.  If your shot/stone technique is poor, your results on this test will likely be better, possibly much better.  Note that, like the WOB, being tall really helps in achieving superior distances in this test, along with being very "explosive".  Even for shorter athletes, the test is extremely useful for measuring one's personal level of explosiveness.  Don't worry too much about how your distance compares to others, just understand that as the distance you are able to achieve in this test goes up (after attaining the modest level of technical proficiency required) your potential or physical readiness for superior results in other throwing events goes up too.  Using a 20 or 22 pound shot might make this somewhat more relevant to some of the heavier events.

Bert, I'm going to guess that is Brian Crouser you are talking about??

On occasion, I've seen some pretty big differentials between guys' OH distances and SP distances.  I think a lot of track guys can remember athletes at meets "winning" warmups with massive overhead throws to psyche out their opponents... and then losing 10-15' on their shot puts!  I, for example, have always been a crappy SP'er with a much better overhead toss.  I know technique plays largely into that.

I love the overhead scene in the Bruch movie.  I remember him throwing over 21 meters for a PR.  His celebratory yell was great when he hit it!!

Beau Fay wrote: Bert, I'm going to guess that is Brian Crouser you are talking about??

I am going to guess Trevor and Brad Snyder from Windsor, Ontario, Canada...

62 feet is awfully good for a malnourished slip of a lad like yourself.  I remember training with Art McDermott when he was still competing, and we took turns trying to beat each other in the overhead for close to an hour. I think the best we could do was around 54-55.
Have you played Peter's plug-in-your-numbers game yet? I'd be curious to hear what kind of weights you were lifting at the time.

yes, that was Trevor Snyder. He is a bad ass, trying out for the Oly Bobsled team now.

My lifts have remained pretty constant since I threw 60'ish in the overhead. It is a matter of technique too, though.

365 clean, 265 snatch 585 squat, 550 dead, 365 bench, 365 front squat 32' Vert jump, 10'5" standing broad jump, 3.7 sec 30 meter sprint - these are not my PR's but close. Kind of average of where my strength was at this time. All were at a BW of 220-230lb. Bad thing was, i was the weakest out of the 4 guys I trained with!  

I will agree with M Pockoski on the "feel strong enough to throw pretty far lifts". Mine are right on that. At that point I do not feel like little girl.

 

The over head throw conversion never worked for me. I was about 10-15' off in my shot put.