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Season Approaching...

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mcdonl View Drop Down
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    Posted: 3/09/07 at 1:33am

Hi all, I tried to get this question answered, but I did it by hijacking someone else's thread. Sorry.

When do you change your lifting routine from constantly go heavier and heavier to something less taxing on the body and more explosive for throwing?

And my second question is, what would some of those exercises be?

Thanks!

Leroy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hbaileyIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 2:46am

I think it depends on a number of things.  First, it is different for every person as to what there body will respond to.  You need to figure that out for yourself.  I usually stop lifting more than 1x per week at the end of March so I can throw more but some guys need to lift until Sept. to feel strong.  If you live in a climate that allows you to get outside and throw/drill early in the season, I say get the throwing reps in.  If you throw enough it beats you up like lifting anyway.  I am going to try lifting heavy through April this year and then back off to 1x per week to light and explosive (Squat, clean, Jump dead).  It also depends on your comp. schedule.  If you don't have any real comps until May then you can stay heavy in the gym longer. 

While strength is important, you have to throw, throw, throw.  If you have built a solid base of strength, you won't lose it all by changing to explosive lifts and throwing. 

HB3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pingleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 3:18am

Leroy,

I tried to answer this a bit in my reply to the "squat/reps" thread, but it was not very extensive.  The answer will be somewhat individual and be determined by several factors.

1. This will depend on how early your first Games are and especially the first Games you are really focussing on. 

2.  It also depends on what type of training your "heavy" training consists of - if it's basically powerlifting you are going to have to change your routine sooner than you would if you have been doing a more throwing-oriented routine all along. 

3. It also depends to some extent how strong you are - if you are very strong, and especially if you are very strong but relatively slow, you can and should start training more dynamically earlier.

4. Perhaps most importantly, once the weather is reasonable in your area and you are able to throw outside, this should definitely be your priority (or starting eight weeks or so prior to your first Games for those who live in warm climates), as for most people nothing is going to improve your throwing performances more than improving your throwing technique.  Ideally you would be throwing to some extent for most of the year, but that isn't possible or at least convenient for many of us.  And even during the season, circumstances might mean you can only practice your throwing 2 or 3 times a week, but you might still be able to lift 2-3 times a week as well. 

Personally, I think it is very valuable to keep lifting twice a week for most of the season if possible, with one moderately heavy/hard workout at the beginning of the week and one very dynamic workout in the middle of the week.  No heavy deads or very heavy squats, good mornings etc.  Focus on front or back squats with 50%-80% of your 1RM (at the beginning of the week), hang cleans/high-pulls and snatches done with the most weight you can handle with very crisp form and minimal leg dip, and push presses and/or jerks done very dynamically.  If you are throwing a lot, you may well only need the first workout done early in the week.  Tossing the WOB and the caber probably gives a similar effect to hang snatches and cleans anyway.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pingleton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 3:21am

Listen to Harrison, obviously.

I didn't see his post, as I was interrupted while completing mine so it took a while.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 4:16am

Thanks Guys. My first competition is May 5th. I have been doing a throwing based workout, but going as heavy as I could handle.

It will be in the upper 30's this weekend AND I Daylight Savings time is starting early this year, so I will be having time to throw two to three times a week.

Thanks for the advice.

Leroy McDonough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Vierra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 5:02am

Leroy,

 

Q1:

 

Good timing for this question.  The answer is somewhat individualized as HB, and Peter mentioned.  I organize my program by phases, so it’s important that I schedule my lifting cycles appropriately to coincide with the throwing season.  Very important to layoff the heavy lifting once the core of your season starts…if you have to lift then focus on fast and explosive lifting at about 40 to 50% 1RM.

 

 

Here’s my off-Season preparation leading into the season

 

1. Conditioning Phase: (1 Cycle – a cycle is 4 weeks on 1 week off)

 

2. Strength Phase: 3 Cycles

 

3. Dynamic / Explosive Phase:  1 Cycle (about 1 month out from the throwing season) starts in about 3 weeks for me.

 

Q2:

 

The lifts that incorporate into Phase 3 are:

 

These are done at 40 to 50 % 1RM

 

Sets & Reps range from:

 

6x2, 5x3, 4x3, last week 3x2,

 

 

Power Snatch or Snatch Hi-Pulls

Power Cleans or Clean Hi-Pulls

Hex Bar Jump Shrugs (continuous jumping and dropping to about 4” off ground)

B.N. Jerks

Band Squats into a Jerk (Bands pulling upward)

NEW-Overhead Snatch Grip Core Crushers – this is an awesome exercise for core strength, stability and flexibility – great for the pre-season.

 A Lot of Med-Ball

56 Drill lifts/Pulls

Bleachers

Line Drills with a 94lb steel rod on my shoulders (Like a squat position) Thanks for the rod Carlos…and I know you want it back…but, its mine now…HAHAHA

I will do 2-3 lifts per day for three days a week…with a lot of throwing during this 4 week time frame. 

 

After this phase/cycle I will stop ALL lifting and focus primarily on my throwing and recovery. 



Highland Games Training Visit: www.IHGFTV.com
My email: ryanvierra@worldheavyevents.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 5:48am

Ryan, nice workout. This will work well for me as I am starting my season first weekend in May as well. Then I have a competition about every other week after that. Thanks!

Does anyone know who the contact is for the Quechee games? I have made several inquiries but get no response, or dead email responses...

I am glad the daylight savings thing is early. I need to start working on my throws...

Leroy McDonough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlDargie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 6:45am
Originally posted by mcdonl mcdonl wrote:

Does anyone know who the contact is for the Quechee games?  I have made several inquiries but get no response, or dead email responses...



If you find out and can throw let me know.  I know last year there were several long time throwers who were uninvited from last years comp.  It was a very small comp.


Edited by AlDargie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 7:53am
Leroy - time to start adding some drills and plyometric jumping. EX - get in braemar/open stone position and explode through the movement sans stone..hold a coreball/dumbell in one hand and see if you can do spins like weight throws and stay low and straight down the line......do hammer winds w. a plate....jump on a box /stair/step ...do power skipping......jumprope......short(5-10 yard) sprints...not alot -but real high quality effort...... I use these as my warmups before lifting or tossing ...gotta remind the body to move fast and will help avoid all those little muscle strain things when u ask the body to move in a different way.All the pro studs do drills and most am's don't.....proof is in the puddin'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 8:24am

Originally posted by M-BAAB M-BAAB wrote:

Leroy - time to start adding some drills and plyometric jumping.

 

proof is in the puddin'.

Nice, I am looking forward to changing things up.

Mmmm... Puddin.....

Leroy McDonough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Vierra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/07 at 11:49am
[/QUOTE]

 

Mmmm... Puddin.....

[/QUOTE]

 

I second that....mmmm...Puddin!



Highland Games Training Visit: www.IHGFTV.com
My email: ryanvierra@worldheavyevents.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote houseman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 5:21am
Originally posted by mcdonl mcdonl wrote:

Does anyone know who the contact is for the Quechee games? I have made several inquiries but get no response, or dead email responses...

Good Luck with that one!  It's certainly not an all-comers game.   I think they pick & choose who they want to throw... and they don't allow women.      Probably afraid we'll steal the show!!     Am I wrong???  -Denise

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 7:38am
Originally posted by houseman houseman wrote:

Originally posted by mcdonl mcdonl wrote:

Does anyone know who the contact is for the Quechee games? I have made several inquiries but get no response, or dead email responses...

Good Luck with that one!  It's certainly not an all-comers game.   I think they pick & choose who they want to throw... and they don't allow women.      Probably afraid we'll steal the show!!     Am I wrong???  -Denise

I guess they don't frequent NASGA either. I tried calling, but the games are run by a guy who owns the gift shop "Scotland by the Yard".

I will try again, but I will let them know that if ALL of my women friends can't come then no dice.

Hapy, you know these folks?

Leroy McDonough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 7:44am
Leroy,

I know them, and its a real tough game to get into. I can give you more
details when I see you next.

-Hapy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 7:47am

John MacDonald - 8410 Tuttle RD.- Bridgeport, NY 13030 - (315-699-3670)

I believe that John is still running the athletics at Queeche.

he and Val are sweeties

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sqeezemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 10:51am
Originally posted by Ryan Vierra Ryan Vierra wrote:

Overhead Snatch Grip Core Crushers 



How are these performed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 1:21pm

Thanks Hapy and Will. It will be the week after Maine, and I probably wont be able to compete in Maine, so I will be dying to throw after seeing all of you.

I will give them a try, but I understand that some of the games over here in New England are hard to get into. No big deal.

Leroy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Hapy Hapy wrote:

Leroy,

I know them, and its a real tough game to get into. I can give you more
details when I see you next.

-Hapy

Hapy, just make sure you give him ALL of the details.

-Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skullsplitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 4:35pm
The Fianna Games will be that weekend as well, as Hapy and Wayne already know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 4:51pm
I'd like to get into the Fianna games who do I contact?...hey Bill out of hospital...doing ok-IV drugs..will call sunday nite we won counties thursday and kaitlyn won state semi's today...I promise I'll call sunday nite..dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Vierra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/07 at 7:41pm

Squeezemaster,

 

 

Re: Overhead Snatch Grip Core Crushers:

 

Here’s what we do>

 

Basically, we snatch the weight to an overhead position, then place the feet about shoulder width apart…then transfer about 70% of your bodyweight over to the right side at the same time twisting the bar as far as it will allow (be careful to not over rotate…this may cause an injury…keep these slow and light and then build into them) then transfer to the left while squatting once you square up in the middle...and so on.

 

A good workout would be 3x10 (that’s 10 to each side is one set) these will kill the core and increase you mobility and rotational flexibility...functional strength and flexibility is the key to this exercise



Highland Games Training Visit: www.IHGFTV.com
My email: ryanvierra@worldheavyevents.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/11/07 at 2:48am

Originally posted by Wayne Hill Wayne Hill wrote:

Hapy, just make sure you give him ALL of the details.

-Wayne

I sure wasnt meaning any disrespect or anything towards Quechee. I was just curious about info, I want to throw as much as I can and improve my scores as much as I can. Thats all, and Quechee is just a four hour drive for me.

Leroy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sqeezemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/11/07 at 6:57am
Thanks Ryan, I'll try those for my ab work this week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeftyLacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/11/07 at 3:37pm
Ryan- that's a sweet exercise! Thanks, Man!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/11/07 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by mcdonl mcdonl wrote:

Originally posted by Wayne Hill Wayne Hill wrote:

Hapy, just make sure you give him ALL of the details.

-Wayne

I sure wasnt meaning any disrespect or anything towards Quechee. I was just curious about info, I want to throw as much as I can and improve my scores as much as I can. Thats all, and Quechee is just a four hour drive for me.

Leroy


Oh, no, it's nothing like that.  The Quechee games are, well, strange.

-Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/11/07 at 4:16pm
competed once and if it wasn't for dave barron not only would have my 4 hr drive been for naught-but two top women(i think the only two to throw there)wouldn't have been able either..Ad didn't want to let me or terri james & sarah zemple compete but dave Barron stood up and said he was a guest thrower(no other pro's) and wouldn't throw unless terri could(the field was managable-with us three add-on's still only 10 athletes for the day)great field,crowd settings,just weird!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/12/07 at 3:19am
lets not forget that Queeche is one of the most perfect throwing fields of all time. Plus you get to throw a 68 lb weight for distance as a bonus event (heavy) and then swim in Queeche gorge afterwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/12/07 at 4:21am

Originally posted by will barron will barron wrote:

lets not forget that Queeche is one of the most perfect throwing fields of all time. Plus you get to throw a 68 lb weight for distance as a bonus event (heavy) and then swim in Queeche gorge afterwards.

It sounds awesome Will, and I am going to continue my persuit (With the help of others...) to get into the Queeche games.

Leroy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcdonl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/13/07 at 12:44am
Originally posted by Ryan Vierra Ryan Vierra wrote:

I will do 2-3 lifts per day for three days a week…with a lot of throwing during this 4 week time frame. 

After this phase/cycle I will stop ALL lifting and focus primarily on my throwing and recovery. 

Ryan, I have thrown for two days in a row, and my throws are a little better then last year, but I am much more sore then I was lifting four days a week?

Should I still lift while throwing 3-4 days a week, how many throws per day?

Oh, and I want to add 10 feet to my LWFD.... How do I do that?

Leroy McDonough
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Vierra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/13/07 at 6:03am

Leroy,

This phase/Cycle consist of explosive and flexibility movements with light weight (40 to 50% of 1RM) so therefore, it transfers more efficiently and compliments the throws much better...unlike the heavy/static lifting.  Remember, throwing is lifting, so make the pre-season phase short (throwing and Lifting) then focus primarily on the throws. 

The amount of throws you should take is really based on your conditioning for throwing...I would start your session off doing at least 30 min of drilling, then move to doing some light throwing (2 to 3 events 10 to 15 throws per event) working on specific areas...mainly the areas that you are having troubles in...for example, if you are diving into the first turn in the weights, then I would suggest that you start working that area by casting the weight out in front of you before entering into the turn...we do a figure 8 drill which takes the weight out and away from the athlete preventing the tendency to dive. 

Everytime you go out and train you should always have a goal in mind...just throwing isn’t going to help you get better, in fact, it can make you worse...If you don't understand what the problem is then more than likely you are going to reinforce bad habits...try to get as much technical info as you can (You need to be a student of the sport to be successful) so that when you encounter the problems in training or competition you will recognize it and hopefully correct it.  Watch videos of successful athletes and then break each movement down in each event by comparing that movement to yours...you must learn to visualize the movements in your head, then try to duplicate those movements in training. 

Okay, here’s what will make you throw 10 feet farther in the LWFD 

This was a little more than you asked for, but I felt like elaborating.

   



Edited by Ryan Vierra


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