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jimmymac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 1/12/06 at 11:20am

I am sure this has been discussed (in some form) many times over, but if you would not mind indulging me….

 

I am evaluating my off-season exercise and would like to pick your brains.  

 

(With highland game events being of sole importance.)

 

What do you think are the 2 most important exercises?

 

What exercise do you feel is a waste, but you know many people who do them anyway?

 

What exercise do you value, but you do not think many people do it?  Or an area that is overlooked.  

 

Cheers,

jimmymac
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/12/06 at 11:42am
jimmymac- most discussions have landed on some type of squat(push) and some type of pull- deads,cleans,snatches. I will always do snatches or cleans and some type of squat most workouts. Add some explosive plyometric work(overlooked area #1) and lots of tossing you can't go wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Jayster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/12/06 at 2:50pm

COACH MAC SEZ, 80% OF THE THROWS ARE PULLS!

squats front & back ,pulls,pulls,pulls.

i dont do cleans anymore 14 years of armwrestling took care of my wrists but you can still do clean and snatch grip high pulls.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/13/06 at 3:28am
BRIAN OLDFIELD
2 lifts
push press
power clean




Edited by G-man
http://cghighlander.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimmymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/13/06 at 7:20am
What would be an example of explosive plyometric work?
May the Risen Lord grant that the strength of his life, peace and freedom be experienced everywhere. - B16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/13/06 at 12:10pm
Plyometrics are exercises that take advantage of the stretch-shorten reflex, and they are extremely good for developing explosiveness, which is a high rate of force development.  You essentially catch the weight in a somewhat eccentric position and pop it back up.  The classic example is depth jumps, but clap pushups and similar exercises also fall into this category.

By the way, depth jumps involve stepping (not jumping) off a low platform (start with a single step), landing and immediately jumping again.  It's important that the you not land lightly:  you have to reverse the motion very suddenly.  There is some risk associated with these, because the force is tremendous and your muscles and connective tissue have to be in decent shape.  For example, I seem to remember a rule of thumb by some Russian coach that the athlete be able to do a 1.5xBW squat as a minimum condition for easy depth jumps (I'd have to do some digging to back that up, and I might have the number wrong).

If you google plyometrics, you should find piles of info online.

-Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Jayster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/13/06 at 1:22pm

the big "O" also did tons of rack pulls , front squats [in lieu of back squats] and only lifted two days a week!

using the other days for sprinting& drills, & throwing

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/14/06 at 3:19am

light push presses. put on some wrist wraps and try 55-65% of pushpress max for 6 reps as FAST as possible. Jump from a quarter squat into the press and go up and down fast... weighted AND "plyometricee" - you'll be sucking wind and setting the nervous system to RAGE...and rage fast - exactly as it should be when your about to pull the living crap out a highland implement. the shifting of force each rep from up to down (changing direction fast!) mimics the turns we take in the distance events...at least I think it does

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/14/06 at 5:21am

Heavy Push Presses.  Not just to disagree with Will, but because i think so.  Deads too.  Heavy.

-C

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote will barron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/14/06 at 5:52am

your such a G-D dam gorilla...I'm talking in season - the light fast pressing - is great for a Wed night before a comp workout...definitely heavy presses in the off season though

Craig - we'll just take a tally of braemar putting scores 'tween you and me this year...I will crush you like a pool ball in my hand.

I will have a dead lift max # for you soon.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/14/06 at 6:00am

How many times do we even throw that?  But sure, im game.

I;m anxious for that # baby...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silverback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 1:39am

Will, I am with Craig on that weight gig.  More is best.  Also your post up there with the rage and plyo, I don't think I have ever seen you so worked up, wow is all I can say. 

Best two are fronts and deads, heavy. 

And are you talking about throwing without moving?  Interesting

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Bogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 3:59am

Ignoring a "real" pull like a power clean or snatch is just foolish!

 

Get the Front Squat over 400 and the Power Clean over 350 for a double baby!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 8:52am
Not to beat a dead horse, but we all should work on what we're bad at - CSmith is naturally quick/explosive and has great technique and lacks only size(what Craig - 6'2" @250-260?) - so he compensates by working on power to overcome lack of size. A newbie should lift heavy and do plyos , sure, but they should focus most of their energy on technique improvement thru tosssing.I've got size (6'4" @280) and some power ( not like Craig or Myles)and decent technique, but I'm 46 and terrified of losing my "POP" or explosiveness or athletic ability- so I compensate by focusing more attention on plyos and sprints  - ex: on Friday I did the whole gym thing w/ deads and snatches,etc.- but Sunday was 40 - 15yard uphill sprints done like old football agilities - hopping,skipping, crossovers, shuffles,whatever......and my legs are crushed just like after Fridays heavy stuff....and that's what I need - what do you need ?- overcompensate on that and you will get better faster.2cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Roy Bogue Roy Bogue wrote:

Ignoring a "real" pull like a power clean or snatch is just foolish!

Then i am a fool.

-C

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 9:27am

[QUOTE=M-BAAB]Not to beat a dead horse, but we all should work on what we're bad at - CSmith is naturally quick/explosive and has great technique and lacks only size(what Craig - 6'2" @250-260?) - so he compensates by working on power to overcome lack of size. [QUOTE]

New and improved in 2006.  I'm sitting right about 280 now, Baab.  Still small, but hopefully more by the time the season gets here.

-C



Edited by C. Smith
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Steve D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 11:01am

I am sure this has been discussed (in some form) many times over, but if you would not mind indulging me….

 

I am evaluating my off-season exercise and would like to pick your brains.  

 

(With highland game events being of sole importance.)These sugestions are made soley on this sentence - throwing

 

What do you think are the 2 most important exercises?

Clean grip snatch - Squat (front or back) done with the intent to move the bar quickly and powerfully

 

What exercise do you feel is a waste, but you know many people who do them anyway?Curls ;) 

Dead lifts - they are DEAD, leave them alone.

 

What exercise do you value, but you do not think many people do it?  Or an area that is overlooked.  Clean grip or closer snatch from a raised platform - long full pull done fast - core strength through the mid section trained functionally.

 

If I only had a hand full of exercises to perform:

Power Cleans - very little drop

Close grip snatch - very little drop

Push press - move it, move it

Squat - any way I could do them full, 1/2, 3/4, unrack the weight think about sitting and rerack - have to be explosive

Russian twists - multiple variations

Back extensions - old school

Step ups - with a pop on the end

Some form of cardio for at least 20 min.

 

Throw light, heavy, long, short, high or low volume, in the light or dark, all year long to some degree, ...

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 11:18am
CSmith - SOOO, you're gonna risk giving up being"the cute one" to throw rocks and poles better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 12:11pm

Oh no.  I'm still pretty.  I just don't have to train for that

 

-C

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimmymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 12:16pm
May the Risen Lord grant that the strength of his life, peace and freedom be experienced everywhere. - B16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 12:22pm
So if you're 6'2" and 280 and STILL pretty and Myles is ONLY 6'2" and 262(says so right on his bio)........how is the Alabama Plow Mule gonna deal with this development ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Bogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Bogue Roy Bogue wrote:

Ignoring a "real" pull like a power clean or snatch is just foolish!

Then i am a fool.

-C

 

Dude,  there's video of you banging cleans?!?  I don't get it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Bogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Steve D Steve D wrote:

I am sure this has been discussed (in some form) many times over, but if you would not mind indulging me….

 

I am evaluating my off-season exercise and would like to pick your brains.  

(With highland game events being of sole importance.)These sugestions are made soley on this sentence - throwing

What do you think are the 2 most important exercises?

Clean grip snatch - Squat (front or back) done with the intent to move the bar quickly and powerfully

What exercise do you feel is a waste, but you know many people who do them anyway?Curls ;) 

Dead lifts - they are DEAD, leave them alone.

What exercise do you value, but you do not think many people do it?  Or an area that is overlooked.  Clean grip or closer snatch from a raised platform - long full pull done fast - core strength through the mid section trained functionally.

 

If I only had a hand full of exercises to perform:

Power Cleans - very little drop

Close grip snatch - very little drop

Push press - move it, move it

Squat - any way I could do them full, 1/2, 3/4, unrack the weight think about sitting and rerack - have to be explosive

Russian twists - multiple variations

Back extensions - old school

Step ups - with a pop on the end

Some form of cardio for at least 20 min.

 

Throw light, heavy, long, short, high or low volume, in the light or dark, all year long to some degree, ...

 

 

 

A FRIGGIN MEN!  This is how it is done.  I only wish I could dedicate myself to this kind of steady training.  The deadlift is just that "dead"  Good Post Steve.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote G-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by Steve D Steve D wrote:

What do you think are the 2 most important exercises?

Clean grip snatch - Squat (front or back) done with the intent to move the bar quickly and powerfully


 



I know this is a dumb ? When you say Clean grip snatch does that mean hands closer in than the "wide snatch grip"
-G
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/16/06 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by Roy Bogue Roy Bogue wrote:

Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Bogue Roy Bogue wrote:

Ignoring a "real" pull like a power clean or snatch is just foolish!

Then i am a fool.

-C

 

Dude,  there's video of you banging cleans?!?  I don't get it.

 

I don't know if i would quite call that a clean.  More of a reverse curl   And, i have done them once since the season ended, the video, and the weight was only about ~300 and i'd be lucky to get any higher.

-C

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/17/06 at 1:20am
Hey guys, just following along, does the majority of this board think DL's are wasted effort in the Gym "for the HG guy?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C Cook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/17/06 at 1:45am

Lyle....please put me down for "HE!! NO."  The dead is the test for max effort strength.  Explosive power has to have a base in my opinion and that would be the start of the pull...which is the deadlift.

Everyone is different.  More or less repeating Baab, everyone has to train to capitalize on their gifts and minimize their weaknesses.  Just because I am the same height as Ryan Vierra, doesn't mean I can weigh 315 and have his foot speed.  I only weigh 220 and cannot come close even now. Just find a balance for yourself as an individual.

I had my best year ever last year and did only 5 things every week...THROW, Hang Clean, hang snatch, deadlift, and hill sprints.

Oh yeah...I did some dips too for the show .



Edited by C Cook
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/17/06 at 2:02am
I don't think it's as simple as that (responding to Lyle).  If you're strength-limited, you should work on strength.  If you're already very strong, then you should work on explosiveness.

DL builds posterior chain strength, which is a large fraction of what's needed in HG.  The other element that's needed is explosiveness, which DL doesn't train all that well.  You can do your DLs with speed, but there's nothing like the quick lifts and plyos for building explosiveness in the weight room when you can't throw.

Which you work on should also depend on where you are in your season.  You might concentrate on developing strength in the initial post-season period, then transition to explosiveness as the throwing season approaches.

Dr. Bill made a good point to me last year.  He does DLs in-season, because he feels he gets plenty of explosive work in his throwing.  Coming from an athlete with an Oly background, this carries some weight (so to speak).

-Wayne


Edited by Wayne Hill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/17/06 at 2:10am
Originally posted by G-man G-man wrote:

Originally posted by Steve D Steve D wrote:

What do you think are the 2 most important exercises?

Clean grip snatch - Squat (front or back) done with the intent to move the bar quickly and powerfully


I know this is a dumb ? When you say Clean grip snatch does that mean hands closer in than the "wide snatch grip"

That's not so dumb, if you haven't heard the expression before.  You guessed right.

-Wayne
"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Geisler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/17/06 at 3:08am
"Step ups - with a pop on the end" - Could someone elaborate?
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