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Can't get under the bar

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Duncan McCallum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Can't get under the bar
    Posted: 12/15/12 at 4:01pm
So, I've been having this issue for awhile, as I am sure many of y'all have...hoping to get some insight.
 
I've had to change my squatting up a bit because of recent knee injuries, and now I am more or less limited to half-squats or mini-squats or whatever you want to call them.  Nothing to parallel.  Boo hiss.  It sucks, but it's all I can do right now...maybe in the future this will change up a bit.
 
Here's my issue:  I am having a very difficult time loading the bar across my back properly because, well, it hurts my shoulders?  It's pain, not injury, so I work around it.  But I've often wondered "Do other folks have this same issue?"
 
Is this some silly flexibility thing, and if so, what EXACTLY did y'all do to get around it?
 
Thanks!
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Ryan Stewart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Stewart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 4:22pm
Squeeze your shoulder blades together and use those big traps as a cushion son!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Beech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 5:11pm
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Duncan McCallum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 5:41pm
Beech...good looking out.
 
Stewtant...whatever.  Don't make me pose you down on this forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 6:13pm
You're doing it wrong.  
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Andy Vincent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Vincent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 6:16pm
Sounds like a shoulder mobility issue.  I get a lot of mileage out of doing dislocates, but YMMV.  There's plenty of good mobility exercises out there, so fire up the internets and get your learn on.

Or, buy a Buffalo Bar or Buffalo Bar knock off.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Srokus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 8:12pm
Either get a different bar buffalo, cambered, spider, etc. or add straps to the bar as handles for a poor man's safety squat bar. 

The competitor to be feared is not the one who worries about others, but the one who goes on making their business better at all times...

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Duncan McCallum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 9:19pm
Word.  The discomfort goes away after a few sets, but at the beginning it is awfulsauce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiltBill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 9:27pm
Davedraper.com     Top squat.    This is an adapter for lifters with mobility issues, turns any regular bar into a shoulder friendly squat bar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/12 at 10:05pm
Dunc, you got an actual 10-15 minute warmup routine in your lifting life?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/12 at 9:55am
Originally posted by Duncan McCallum Duncan McCallum wrote:

Word.  The discomfort goes away after a few sets, but at the beginning it is awfulsauce.

This seems to further the mobility guesses.  

Have you tried modifying hand placement (close grip vs. wide grip, etc?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silverback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/12 at 10:00am
Have had this for 10 years since they cut my delt, yep, it hurts bad the first couple of sets.  I do shoulder mobility and cuff and all that, still hurts.  Price paid is all I figure.  Play through.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/12 at 11:55am
Bill is spot on, that or a safety squat bar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/12 at 1:11pm
Seems to me that addressing the issue, as opposed to just switching bars like people are advocating, would be the best course of action.
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Duncan McCallum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/12 at 1:38pm
I agree.  I've tried switching grips.  Bringing the hands in close (relative) is kinda painful.  To alleviate that, I push my elbows back, which in turn makes it easy for me to roll forward and dump the weight.
 
Wide grip is not a big deal, but I never get that upwards push with the arms I've read about (somewhere)
 
I will ask my PT tomorrow.
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john gallagher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/12 at 4:05pm
Something that hasn't been mentioned that happened to me.  I had the same type of thing happen to me over the years.  Started with the knee issues that turned out to be advanced arthritis and the destruction of the cartilage in my knees.  I can squat almost to hamstrings to parallel but any lower, I get bone on bone and the knees swell.  So I really didn't do much squatting from about 2002 and later.  I decided to try some squatting a few years ago and noticed that I had no shoulder flexibility and it was very painful to hold the bar in a back squat.  I simply chalked it up to mobility issues.  Well long story short, found out my shoulders have about as much arthritis as my knees.  Just about all out of cartilage on the rear portion of both shoulders.  This is why I began noticing an increasing lack of range of motion when I threw the hammers and any lifting overhead and back squatting.  You may also want to find a good ortho and have that checked out too.  The pain from the shoulder arthritis is horrible.  I can live with the knees but the shoulders have been much harder to deal with in the last 3 years.  At least go check it and rule it out.  I never really even thought much about developing shoulder arthritis until it was too late to change things.  Just my experience with similar symptoms.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/12 at 4:06pm
You can try gripping the bar different ways, e.g.,  thumbless or thumb wrapped but pinky under the bar.  

I usually stretch out my t-spine on the foam roller, then do a bunch of band pullaparts, and stretch my shoulders and pecs with bands (static) and pvc dislocations (dynamic). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Glover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/12 at 7:36am
Paul beat me to it.  A powerlifter friend recommended middle finger on the farthest rings and thumbless grip.  Pushing up into the bar is noob stuff.  You don't need it if you squeeze your shoulder blade together and create a proper shelf for the bar.  I'd try a lower bar position.  I use the same low bar position for both oly and power style squats.  Granted I don't squat anywhere near your maxes so take this with a grain of salt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/12 at 9:31am
I have the same issue but it's gotten better over the last year or so.

Chest tightness and shoulder tightness are the things that inhibit me but I've never really been able to get under the bar like "normal" people.

I hold it thumbless and really the bar ends up just kind of resting on my palms/fingers. I don't really "hold" the bar at all.

I haven't actually "held" onto a squat bar in 10+ years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/12 at 10:16am
Been doing a lot of stretching and stuff trying to get looser before I start. 
Thanks so much for the input y'all!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/12 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Barge Barge wrote:

I hold it thumbless and really the bar ends up just kind of resting on my palms/fingers. I don't really "hold" the bar at all.

I haven't actually "held" onto a squat bar in 10+ years.
 
this is big imo. I can't completely hold onto a bar either. I've been squatting thumbless since I was 18 or 19 y/o. It's just not "comfortable" for me any other way. Hell I don't even "hold" onto the bar on front squats, just my first two finger tips on the bar. My lifting partner on the other hand, keeps his hands much closer to his body than I do and wraps his thumbs around and then squats a shitload more than me. lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silverback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/12 at 8:33am
Wing span is a factor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/12 at 6:15pm
Another opinion to the title:  "Can't get it up."  Oops I mean:  "Can't get under the bar".....THEN DON'T!  Do front squat, overhead squats, yoke bar or safety bar squats, bulgarian split squats, high box step-ups with a yoke bar or safety squat bar or holding dumbbells, do lunges, etc.  LOTS of things to do that accomplish the same thing.  Stop being sold that this is a powerlifting sport.  With throwing, there are many ways to 'skin the cat' and throw far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 6:53am
Originally posted by john gallagher john gallagher wrote:

Another opinion to the title:  "Can't get it up."  Oops I mean:  "Can't get under the bar".....THEN DON'T!  Do front squat, overhead squats, yoke bar or safety bar squats, bulgarian split squats, high box step-ups with a yoke bar or safety squat bar or holding dumbbells, do lunges, etc.  LOTS of things to do that accomplish the same thing.  Stop being sold that this is a powerlifting sport.  With throwing, there are many ways to 'skin the cat' and throw far.

Amen, and amen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sammy68123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 7:33am
Originally posted by john gallagher john gallagher wrote:

Another opinion to the title:  "Can't get it up."  Oops I mean:  "Can't get under the bar".....THEN DON'T!  Do front squat, overhead squats, yoke bar or safety bar squats, bulgarian split squats, high box step-ups with a yoke bar or safety squat bar or holding dumbbells, do lunges, etc.  LOTS of things to do that accomplish the same thing.  Stop being sold that this is a powerlifting sport.  With throwing, there are many ways to 'skin the cat' and throw far.
 
I doubt that a person who has trouble getting under the bar on his/her back would be able to do overhead squats.  Both types of squats need similar shoulder and thoracic mobility.  Heck, I have trouble with any overhead squats heavier than a stick but can get under a bar for back squats just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/12 at 8:23am
I can do OH squats.  I've got squats on the list today so we'll see.
 
Maybe some vid.
 
DEF a topknot.
 
Again, thanks for all the advice y'all.  I'm reading ALL of it.
The man in the arena.
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