Olympic Lifts Question

I'm committing to the olympic lifts this year and have a question: what's better, hangs or from the floor?

Personally I am more comfortable doing hangs, but that is probably because I'm inexperienced with these lifts.

JSiau10 wrote: I do hangs, but I am trying to do from the floor. I feel it is a more effective form of the lift.

I just started doing them from the flooor. I don't have a specific reason, other than it lets me deadlift more often since I can't go heavy (with deads) but once every 2-3 weeks.

First of all, can you do either properly?  If not, don't go heavy until you can do them reasonably well, botyh because they are not going to provide any benefit unless they are done reasonably well and because they can be hard on one's back, shoulders, or wrists if done improperly.  

Agreed Sean.  And you do snatch pulls for that same reason I do clean pulls...they feel righter.

Catching the lifts will make the knees hurt.  For sure.  Can't get around thermodynamics.

The clean grip snatch can be just as hard on the knees as anything.  Watched a thrower gradually muck his knees up doing them.  Even at moderate weight, any leg splay is problematic because the weight is overhead.

Pingleton wrote: First of all, can you do either properly?  If not, don't go heavy until you can do them reasonably well, botyh because they are not going to provide any benefit unless they are done reasonably well and because they can be hard on one's back, shoulders, or wrists if done improperly.   Hang Cleans are generally easier to do properly, particularly so for people who have a difficult time getting into or holding the proper position off the floor.  They are also just a simpler movement and therefore easier to learn (although I also learned to do them from the floor first and in fact never did them from the hang until a few years ago).  However, they also seem to be more likely to be "abused".  I do think Hang Cleans probably translate better to throwing, although ideally you should do both, at least in the off-season.

Why are hang cleans and hang snatches good, but high squats bad for throwing?  Something I see a lot on here, and have always wondered about.

High squats are necessarily bad for throwing, they are really just bad in general.

Plus when people call slight knee bends "squats", it makes me want to stab them with a rusty fork. 

Andy Vincent wrote: Why are hang cleans and hang snatches good, but high squats bad for throwing?  Something I see a lot on here, and have always wondered about.

Actually, when it comes specifically to throwing, as opposed to things like overall strength building, complete muscle development, and injury prevention, it seems that half-squats and "three-quarter" squats (to an inch or two above parallel) are superior in terms of specificity and transfer. Certainly this is how most Eastern European and German throwers squat, at least for much of the year. I doubt Dylan Armstrong has gone to parallel since he began training under Bondarchuk a few years ago. I personally prefer deep squats, especially in front, but I certainly think half-squats should ideally be included in ones reportoire as well (along with Split Squats, etc, etc). Just so long as they are referred to as half- squats!

Also check out the Half-Squats at 7:16 (and the Hip Snatches a bit earlier).  Just FYI.

C. Smith wrote: JSiau10 wrote: I do hangs, but I am trying to do from the floor. I feel it is a more effective form of the lift. Why?

Pingleton wrote: C. Smith wrote: High squats are necessarily bad for throwing, they are really just bad in general. Plus when people call slight knee bends "squats", it makes me want to stab them with a rusty fork.  Why are half-squats necessarily so bad as long as they are not done all the time and are consciously done and referred to as Half-Squats?  They have their limitations, but they do allow one to work a given range of motion harder than full squats.

Again, I wasn't specifically saying that they are bad for throwing or some other athletic purpose.  They are bad in the same way that Vibram shoes are bad.  You just end up looking like a douche.   

I'm not convinced that they are necessarily that great either.  And I'm certainly not convinced that they are a worthy addition to anyone who isn't a full time thrower with unlimited training and recovery time, but that's neither here nor there. 

Those links you posted I wouldn't even consider a 'half squat'.  Half implies that it's midway between the standing up and ATG.  Which for some people works out to be right near parallel.  That's a half squat.   

They are bad in the same way that Vibram shoes are bad.  You just end up looking like a douche.

Jeff Ingram wrote: They are bad in the same way that Vibram shoes are bad.  You just end up looking like a douche.      I'm waiting to see if Sean comes in with a rebuttal.   Also, Olympic lifting makes you fat.

He's busy squatting high.

And shut up.

My take on this subject.

1. Both olympic lifts from the floor and from the hang have value.  From the floor builds more starting strength and accelerating strength.  Basically the ability to produce force from nothing and build power throughout the movement.  Hang lifts are better at working the stretch reflex(depending on how you do them).  The ability to go from eccentric to concentric quicker and more explosively. 

2. I haven't seen a power clean on youtube above 400 that the lifter isn't spreading the feet on the catch or dropping under.   Andy's may be the best example of no spread catch with good weight.  I posted a video last year of Rezazedeh catching a power clean with a wide catch.  I would think that this would put more strain on your hips and not your knees.  To me it's not the safest thing but for me it is safer than catching in a split or a deep squat, for me .  I can clean more weight without moving the feet after pushing my cleans up with a wide catch, so that is why I do it.  Plus I think it looks worst than it is when your 6'5" and catching wide with long legs.  Trying to get better at this.