Is HRT cheating?

Too boring around here right now. As it happens, some master's
athletes are on hormone replacement therapy (HRT) of one kind or
another (injections, gels, patches). I heard one of them describe his
gel as "You rub it on and you're eighteen again." Clearly this has an
impact on their throws (sudden 10% improvements in events that
have been stagnant for years). So, is hormone replacement therapy
cheating? Discuss.

If it is, I say good for them and they should increase their dosage

AlDargie wrote: Roy where have you been? Miss the color commentary.

Was thinking the same thing!!

Carlos, Can you get me a sponsor to pay for it?I'm getting weak and feeble...

again! non drug tested sport! so who give s a f##k anymore! i'm sure there are athletes that are taking whatever they want knowing there is no testing. oh! wait, i know EVERYONES clean, why we take that shit for little or no money!.......EGO!.....i'm sorry, caught me at a bad moment, just going to go out saying, we are no cleaner/dirtier than any other sport! so just let it go, and lets throw!

I have a good friend on it and he is not a gamer but he does a sport. He is 46
the doctor said his hormone level was that of a 70 year old man, he said his
workouts were dismal at best and made no gains and was tired all the time.
Weather they are banned are not he made a decision based on feeling better
or hurting. Personally I could care less if a guy has to take HRT, he beats me
he beats me, plain and simple. People who have normal levels and take it
now have above normal levels, then I would say that's cheating. People take
this for health reasons because having low hormone levels could cause other
health related issues if left unattended. I guess it boils down to, it's not a big
deal if he is not beating you, and it's cheating if he does. So he gets a bigger
bag of kettle Corn than you.   

Which doctor gets to decide what the "high normal" area is?  I bet he is the one that will make all the money.  Until the next Doc decides he wants to make money, then the "high normal" goes from A to B. Then the next doc.....you get the point. 

I'm on the fence on this one.  Part of thinks regardless of condition it is a PED.  It is also fairly easy to find a Dr. willing to do the Rx.  The other part of me agrees with the Jay view.  Let's just throw, you do what you want to do, I'll do what I want to do.  I knew a number of the people involved with a pretty high profile doping case involving test gel a few years ago, so maybe I'm a bit clouded in my opinions. 

Interesting question-

From what I've heard, the daily and weekly range of any individual's concentrations range quite a bit... large deviations to the mean. It may require several tests to find that temporal baseline range and median value for T for any individual. Any single test for T is suspect without a series of values to provide a range, st dev and median.

After establishing a person's range of values and the median value over time then it could be compared to benchmarks to determine if its many times greater than the therapeutic dosages. Without that work, its likely any claim about performance enhancements are pure spectulation. Seems like a lot of work to me ... with not much return.

On a side note: I feel like I'm eighteen, but I keep getting kicked out of the dorms. 

-uneducated guess

I don't think it's cheating at all, so long as the patient isn't doubling up on their dosages outside of their doctor's knowledge. But then again, they would run out of their script faster and the doc would know what's up.

According to WADA, the accepted T/E ratio is 4:1. If your natty levels are at 200ng/ml and you take test enough to supplement up to 800ng/ml, you will pass the test. The specific dosage required to get to 800ng/ml would be different for everyone, depending on their natty production and absorption. Even if an athlete was not tested, so long as they are within the natural levels of 250-1100ng/ml, I wouldn't have any issues.

In regards to an instant 10% increase in performance, I don't think that is possible. Going from below average test levels (say 150ng/ml) up to 500ng/ml will yield very little performance results. It's moreso for your libido, mood, quality of life, than it is for recovery and muscle growth. Yes, there will be SOME peformance enhancement, but IMO, this just brings the individual up to where the general population is. Instead of only being able to train twice a week before getting overtrained, you can train an 3x a week and your injuries heal a tidbit faster.

Take that vs someone who is actually on legitimate PEDs at high dosages. Being able to train 5-6 days per week, 100% effort for 2-3 hours at a time without overtraining, those are the ones that should be ridiculed (in a tested sport).  

Borges wrote: First of all, great discussion. Proof positive that we CAN have a civil discussion about a touchy issue on this board. BRAVO! To answer Craig, very few athletic organizations have specific drug policies. Most of them simply subscribe to the WADA/USADA regulations. Not sure if that is what IHGA is doing but that would be standard when you are testing. Any organization subscribing to those regulations would be banning HRT since that is how those regs are interpreted (NO exogenous hormones). Not a big deal for IHGA since their charter is general and, as far as I know, they aren't really interested in running masters events. Frankly, it's probably more important for the SMAI to come up with a policy on this than the IHGA.

Interesting, I was under the impression that most organizations handled it like USA Weightlifting, with TUEs set aside for those type cases.  To be fair, I based that impression on nothing, and basically just saw nothing to the contrary.

If their stance is NO exogenous hormones, then I wish they would publish that so everyone knows.  Although following your train of thought maybe that's clear.  I would certainly hate to see someone fail a test because the IHGF was unclear on their stance and someone with doctor prescribed HRT was to compete in one of their games. 

I also think you are underestimating the number of guys in their 30s who are taking HRT.  It's quite a few.  Understandably though, not everyone wants a medical condition to be public information. 

My solution:  Instead of using HRT....  I just throw another plate on the bar!!

 

Ok Normal testosterone ranges for men is 230-1100 depending on the test given. If a man is within that range then so be it.

The average TRT dosage if done correctly is 100mg per week or 200mg every other week. There is no way in hell anyone is ever going to reach 'steroid' like effects or levels doing that.  The goal for most knowledgeable doctors is to get the patient up to the 800 range on the scale.

Now what does this mean? It means the guy can actually get normal erections, feel good, have solid energy again. It does not and is not the goal nor will you get the effect of doing a steroid cycle. Some look at Sly Stalone. I guarantee that cat isn't doing just 100mg of anything per week lol  

Low testosterone is becoming more of an epidemic in today's society esp with guys that are about 35 and above right now. Mainly due to excess estrogen's in our environment esp food. I know of two of my friends from High School that have had to get pellets and will have to for the rest of their lives. Most of the time in TRT 1mg of arimidex is given per week for the estrogen issues.

Bottom line those on therapy need it and are not cheating nor are trying to, they are trying to just get to a normal, manly level of test and feel better and be healthy. And honestly if some Highland game association has an issue, screw them a man's health is more important.

I will just say it now, due to injuries to the click clacks and head growing up (lived martial arts tournaments across the nation) I have low test. I have a blood test showing a level of 190 a few months back. 190 folks, think on that. I am on TRT now and my doc says I will be for life. Something went wrong some where. My level is a whopping 354 right now, goal is around 800 so I can feel NORMAL again. If anyone or any org has an issue, I really don't give a shit. My health is more important and I have tons of games near me I can throw in with no issues. Anyone that has ever known me knows I would never gear up just to gain an advantage, I am doing this for health reasons only and my test results will always show it.

Borges wrote: I know that I would not attend a 'Championship' or claim a 'record' if I were using HRT. That's a personal choice in an area where there is no clear consensus, and certainly no clear written rules or policies. Others may choose differently and I'm not trying to judge them here.

Not sure I agree. For instance:

Athlete A is 100% lifetime drug free and has natural test production of 800ng/ml.

Athlete B has natural test production of 200ng/ml and is prescribed 150mg/wk of test to bring his test up to 800ng/ml.

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So, if athlete B were 100% lifetime drug free, then Athlete A would have the advantage, correct? Athlete B isn't trying to be superior. He's merely trying to be at the same level as Athlete A, both phyiscally and emotionally. Hypogonadism is a pretty severe medical condition. There is only speculation as to the cause that can lead to poor childhood diet, testicular trauma, prior PEDs usage, etc.

I don't see any problem with Athlete B competing in a championship game or setting records. If he passes a test with or without a TUE, he (or she) should be good to go. If he failes the T/E ratio test, then further tests are done (as prescribed by WADA) and it is up to the organization to allow or not allow the TUE due to prescription testosterone supplementation.

 

Ballard wrote: My solution:  Instead of using HRT....  I just throw another plate on the bar!!

That is a pretty ignorant statement and its obvious you know nothing about low TRT.