Nasgaweb Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home » Nasgaweb Forums » Training
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Questions about knees
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Database

scottishheavyphotographs.com Old Celt Equipment

Questions about knees

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
captjamie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/10
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captjamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Questions about knees
    Posted: 2/24/11 at 2:54pm
OK being new to this, I have a couple of questions about my knees, aside from the fact that I am over weight and out of shape. My knees are not what they should (or could) be. My doctor says I have arthrightis in my knees, but it should not be a problem with HG. I remember reading somewhere either here or on another site about deep squats being good for the knees. So I started doing them and the pain that used to bother me in my Left knee is gone, also have not had to wear a knee support on it since. However my right knee is another story, when I do the deep squats, and by deep I mean getting my ass on my heals, the first 1 or 2 squats there is a loud pop in my right knee. Is this anything to be concerned with or is this normal? Truth be told my knee feels better after it pops. Also when I start back up during the first few inches of upward motion there is a noise in my right knee, not sure how to describe the sound bet its kinda like a squesy noise. Any of you have thoughts as to what it might be? It has been for these reasons that I have not as yet begun squatting with weight, although this morning I did 10 squats holding my 50lb sand bag at the end of my morning workout, when the body and muscles where warm, had no problems with the weight.

Thanks in advance
Jamie
Back to Top
mthompson33 View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/27/09
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1369
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mthompson33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 3:28am
See Craig Smith's log with the pre-hab/re-hab recommendations from Buddy Morris on YouTube.  I would start there.

http://nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9995&am p;am p;am p;PN=1&TPN=31

about halfway down the page.

Loud Popping could mean something is not aligned properly.
Matt Thompson

"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb
Back to Top
brandell View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 3:51am
I have been told my my surgeons (yeah plural) that popping without pain = nothing really. Popping with pain = go see the orthopod.

I have severe grade III Chodro on the trochular grove and the patella with a spot of Grade IV (Meaning no cartilage at all anymore). I also had 30% tear on the meniscus medially, and 40% latterally. What I have been told to keep me working out but hopefully not needing a knee replacement is do motions to just above parallel.

at the 90 degree point the shear forces of patella on femur is at its greatest and cant be avoided.

So what I am doing are cleans, snatches, other pulls and am going to try to make a box to front squat from that is just above parallel. it is the range of motion we throw in and honestly that is all I care about.
Back to Top
M-BAAB View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Jamaica
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 4:03am

+1 brandell

6 knee operations and still going

Capt - the only ppl in the world who squat ass to heels are powerlifters   it's fine to do light and as a warmup but heavy......not unless you're a young pup w. great brand new shiny knees.

I recommend lots of quad and hammy and abductor and adductor machines to help build strength.

Next - step ups and lunges - again very light or just bodyweight - for stabilizers.

Next = light squats finding your depth and ROM.

Next - when feeling very confident - move to front squats - again focusing on perfect form.

Next - backsquats 1/4 heavy.

Work your way up the ladder and you'l come out the other side fine.

Grinding knees are part of life past a certain point.

Luck!

51 , 72 and 15 at 50
Back to Top
C. Smith View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 6661443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 6:41am
Originally posted by M-BAAB M-BAAB wrote:

Capt - the only ppl in the world who squat ass to heels are powerlifters   it's fine to do light and as a warmup but heavy......not unless you're a young pup w. great brand new shiny knees.


Wow, I strongly disagree with this statement.  

Unless you have a physical/medical condition, or are in a different phase of specific programming, you should be squatting ATG.  We just had this discussion in my log last week actually.  

And powerlifters NEVER squat ATG.  Oly lifters, yes.  Powerlifters, no.

Back to Top
M-BAAB View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Jamaica
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 7:44am
Craig - just different backgrounds I guess.
I have NEVER EVER squatted like that in my life and never ever will.
I saw the discussion last week and stayed out

Change plifter to olylifter - one for you

BUT...Capt - do you see how I'm walking you up to strong?
51 , 72 and 15 at 50
Back to Top
C. Smith View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 6661443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 8:10am
Originally posted by M-BAAB M-BAAB wrote:

Craig - just different backgrounds I guess.


Obv.

Originally posted by M-BAAB M-BAAB wrote:


I have NEVER EVER squatted like that in my life and never ever will.


Ok.  My next question is why?

Careful...
Back to Top
Hapy View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 9:24am
my 2 cents -

I had horrible knee pain from when I was about 15 until
about 35 when I finally started squatting ATG.
(deteriorated cartilage from playing basketball and
aggressive bump skiing at 220lb+)

Only thing now that keeps the knees from aching is
relatively heavy (for me) ATG back squats.
Real Men Wear Purple

Tinky Winky Throw Far!

Central Vermont Strength Association
Back to Top
C. Smith View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 6661443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Hapy Hapy wrote:

my 2 cents -

I had horrible knee pain from when I was about 15 until
about 35 when I finally started squatting ATG.
(deteriorated cartilage from playing basketball and
aggressive bump skiing at 220lb+)

Only thing now that keeps the knees from aching is
relatively heavy (for me) ATG back squats.


No surprise there. That's actually pretty common for people who start squatting atg.
Back to Top
M-BAAB View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Jamaica
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 10:03am

Going to try anything that can do that for Hapy - I'm in.

My high school and college and pro coaches were 1/4 squat guys and by my 2nd year at Texas I was 2 knee operations in and by my 3rd year in the pros 6 operations in.

So maybe it's cause it makes my panties ride up?   and hurts?

 gets scary waaaay down there.

Old dawg learnin' a new one.

51 , 72 and 15 at 50
Back to Top
captjamie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/10
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captjamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 10:43am
Thanks for all of the input, Matt thanks for the link I saw that video last night while trying to learn a little bit about knees. Sad as it is to say but oh so true, I know more about the structural stability and systems of my home than I do about my body. Not sure if I made this point in my orginal question but my knees feel a hell of a lot better after the pop when doing ATG squats. This morning after my run I decided that I felt pretty good and wanted to try some front squats with weight. So picked up my bar with 65lbs (no much I know but thats about all the weight plates I got so far) and did 10 ATG, and it felt GREAT.

Cheers mates.
Back to Top
M-BAAB View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Jamaica
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 11:46am

OK .

Did em as low as I could make my knees go - just a broomstick - fronts and backs.

ouch

took several tries to get down there afap - and it ain't atg , but my best first try. Did maybe 20 of each looking for depth.

then I trained 4 ppl .

Just did a front and a back - stick again - and sank waay down(er) w NO PAIN.

wowifeellikeabigdummassissygirlwhosbeenmissingtheboatfor38ye ars.

 

but I feel like a 13 year old just getting under his first bar.

Thanks guys

51 , 72 and 15 at 50
Back to Top
brandell View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 12:34pm
Grrr now I am wanting to do that, but most likely shouldn't 
Back to Top
captjamie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/10
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captjamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 12:37pm
Way to go Mike . Who says us old dawgs can't learn new tricks!

Push myself to hard and maybe to fast tonight was doing front and back squats with 65 lbs 10 each set, during the second of fronts I think I may have pulled my hamstring  on the left leg. Got Ice on it now, so hope all is well tomorrow.


Cheers mates

PS- really just needed an excuse for a beer

Back to Top
C. Smith View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Retired

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 6661443
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/25/11 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by M-BAAB M-BAAB wrote:

OK .

Did em as low as I could make my knees go - just a broomstick - fronts and backs.

ouch

took several tries to get down there afap - and it ain't atg , but my best first try. Did maybe 20 of each looking for depth.

then I trained 4 ppl .

Just did a front and a back - stick again - and sank waay down(er) w NO PAIN.

wowifeellikeabigdummassissygirlwhosbeenmissingtheboatfor38ye ars.

 

but I feel like a 13 year old just getting under his first bar.

Thanks guys




Back to Top
Hapy View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/26/11 at 2:12am
another ATG convert! woohoo!
Real Men Wear Purple

Tinky Winky Throw Far!

Central Vermont Strength Association
Back to Top
brandell View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/26/11 at 3:59am
You know I think I am going to try Dan John's Goblet squats as a warmup before every lifting session. That might be a way to start getting the knee to work through that full ROM and see how it goes. 
Back to Top
M-BAAB View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Jamaica
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/26/11 at 5:21am

Brian - I plan on using these as warm ups - couple sets of 10 or so.

Felt much better w. fronts vs backs.

51 , 72 and 15 at 50
Back to Top
brandell View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2/26/11 at 5:22am
Thanks Mike, I think I am gonna have to give it a try. You coming up for Iron Thistle?
Back to Top
Mr. Natural View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar
Top 10 in the USA - '02-'08

Joined: 7/24/07
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Natural Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/07/11 at 3:02am

Hey Baab, any updates on this? Based on your rec (and Brandell and the cool one) I tried ATG fronts again, first time in a few years. Reps with 135# were fine, but Saturday I did 225# - ouch! Knees are sore and arthritic and achey again (this was after heavy pow snatches, but pretty sure it was the fronts).

 

Back to Top
M-BAAB View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Jamaica
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/07/11 at 5:44am

Dave - I have stayed light w. these and all ok.

Light is 135 or under and high(er) reps like 8-10.

Heavier just hurts and I have stuck w. fronts - easier for me to get down and lighter weight has more effect.

Luck!

 

51 , 72 and 15 at 50
Back to Top
Mr. Natural View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar
Top 10 in the USA - '02-'08

Joined: 7/24/07
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Natural Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/07/11 at 7:57am

Thanks for the wisdom. 135 and under it is.

Weird thing is that, despite not squatting much the last few years my snatches are better than ever. Hit 225# for a triple on Saturday, and that's with me being down 10+ lbs. Must be all that clean living!

Back to Top
Skullsplitter View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1047
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skullsplitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/08/11 at 9:13am
I agree with getting down for the squats. I have been doing front and back
squats deeper and the power snatch and power clean are moving again. I am
also doing overhead squats. Did a set of 185 lbs x 3 with the overhead squat
today and the cracking and popping from my shoulders, sacrum and knees
was deafening! But they felt great afterward. Don't let the age gig be an
excuse. As a 48 year old who still has illusions of grandeur the deep squats
are a ticket back to better lifts and throws.

Bill
"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"
Back to Top
M-BAAB View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/30/04
Location: Jamaica
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/08/11 at 11:42am

And doing short "sprints" in various agility styles - fountain of youth for athleticism.

Isn't it nice to be the lab rats for masters training?

51 , 72 and 15 at 50
Back to Top
Skullsplitter View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1047
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skullsplitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/08/11 at 1:47pm
Oh yeah Mike. Shuttle runs of all types. When I am looking for a big deadlift I
up the 40 yard sprints as explosive strength is explosive strength, regardless
of where it comes from.

Back to the lab of Clan McRat! Seriously, we all have goals and if I believe I
can reach them I will continue to strive.

Bill
"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"
Back to Top
Mr. Natural View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar
Top 10 in the USA - '02-'08

Joined: 7/24/07
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1169
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Natural Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/09/11 at 2:05am
Agree on the sprints.  Those and some light step-ups are all I've been doing for the legs. I'll be an old fart myself next year, anything that lets me keep up with the kids without crippling myself = win.
Back to Top
captjamie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/10
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captjamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/10/11 at 1:57pm
So last night I am doing my workout and I decide to add some weight to my squats (I can only put 95lbs on my bar, it's all the weights i got right now) I put 85 lbs on and do 3 front and 3 back squats and it feels great. I had intended to up it to 95 during my third and last set. From the squats I start doing some lunges 1o left no prob. THEN on the 3rd right lunge bang goes the right knee and down I go. f@#$ did it hurt, so I try some ATG squats with just a bar for balance no noise and no pain, but when I walk I got pain in the knee What the heck is going on? Hurt llike hell climbing the stairs after. Anyone got any ideas.
Back to Top
Sammy68123 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 6/15/08
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sammy68123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/12/11 at 7:38am

Originally posted by captjamie captjamie wrote:

So last night I am doing my workout and I decide to add some weight to my squats (I can only put 95lbs on my bar, it's all the weights i got right now) I put 85 lbs on and do 3 front and 3 back squats and it feels great. I had intended to up it to 95 during my third and last set. From the squats I start doing some lunges 1o left no prob. THEN on the 3rd right lunge bang goes the right knee and down I go. f@#$ did it hurt, so I try some ATG squats with just a bar for balance no noise and no pain, but when I walk I got pain in the knee What the heck is going on? Hurt llike hell climbing the stairs after. Anyone got any ideas.

Were you doing lunges with the weight or with no additional weight?  Forward type lunges, correct?  Not to the side?

It seems like your right leg was not as strong as the left (not unusual with right handed people--they are left-legged).  That could be related to a number of issues in the hips and low back: the right knee just was the part of the chain that failed.

I'm not practicing medicine: if it is not improving after about a week of mindful squatting, I'd suggest you visit a physician to check and rule out anything more serious.  If your knee failed without a twisting action in your fall, you probably will come back faster: you may have strained a muscle.  A twist might have injured 1 or more knee ligaments.

Let us know how it comes out!

Teresa Merrick, Ph.D./Bellevue, NE

Back to Top
brandell View Drop Down
Postaholic
Postaholic
Avatar

Joined: 8/29/04
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/14/11 at 2:19am
Yeah Capt please get an orthopod to look at that puppy.
Back to Top
captjamie View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 12/31/10
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captjamie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/15/11 at 2:34pm
No weight  and forward only lunges, there was no swelling of the knee but Thursday night I did ice it. Friday AM it was still a little sore but not bad and I did my normal morning run and stretching, no work out  Friday night due to other commitments. Saturday AM did a good run and early afternoon did my normal weight workout with no problems, however I did not do any lunges. I did a lot of walking around on Sunday with my wife and have had no pain since then. Not sure if I just have a weak spot in my right knee or not. Teresa thanks for the input BTW I'm a lefty.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.11
Copyright ©2001-2012 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.072 seconds.