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captjamie
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Topic: Questions about kneesPosted: 2/24/11 at 2:54pm |
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OK being new to this, I have a couple of questions about my knees, aside from the fact that I am over weight and out of shape. My knees are not what they should (or could) be. My doctor says I have arthrightis in my knees, but it should not be a problem with HG. I remember reading somewhere either here or on another site about deep squats being good for the knees. So I started doing them and the pain that used to bother me in my Left knee is gone, also have not had to wear a knee support on it since. However my right knee is another story, when I do the deep squats, and by deep I mean getting my ass on my heals, the first 1 or 2 squats there is a loud pop in my right knee. Is this anything to be concerned with or is this normal? Truth be told my knee feels better after it pops. Also when I start back up during the first few inches of upward motion there is a noise in my right knee, not sure how to describe the sound bet its kinda like a squesy noise. Any of you have thoughts as to what it might be? It has been for these reasons that I have not as yet begun squatting with weight, although this morning I did 10 squats holding my 50lb sand bag at the end of my morning workout, when the body and muscles where warm, had no problems with the weight.
Thanks in advance Jamie |
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mthompson33
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 3:28am |
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See Craig Smith's log with the pre-hab/re-hab recommendations from Buddy Morris on YouTube. I would start there.
http://nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9995&am p;am p;am p;PN=1&TPN=31 about halfway down the page. Loud Popping could mean something is not aligned properly. |
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Matt Thompson
"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb |
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brandell
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 3:51am |
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I have been told my my surgeons (yeah plural) that popping without pain = nothing really. Popping with pain = go see the orthopod.
I have severe grade III Chodro on the trochular grove and the patella with a spot of Grade IV (Meaning no cartilage at all anymore). I also had 30% tear on the meniscus medially, and 40% latterally. What I have been told to keep me working out but hopefully not needing a knee replacement is do motions to just above parallel. at the 90 degree point the shear forces of patella on femur is at its greatest and cant be avoided. So what I am doing are cleans, snatches, other pulls and am going to try to make a box to front squat from that is just above parallel. it is the range of motion we throw in and honestly that is all I care about. |
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 4:03am |
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+1 brandell 6 knee operations and still going Capt - the only ppl in the world who squat ass to heels are powerlifters it's fine to do light and as a warmup but heavy......not unless you're a young pup w. great brand new shiny knees. I recommend lots of quad and hammy and abductor and adductor machines to help build strength. Next - step ups and lunges - again very light or just bodyweight - for stabilizers. Next = light squats finding your depth and ROM. Next - when feeling very confident - move to front squats - again focusing on perfect form. Next - backsquats 1/4 heavy. Work your way up the ladder and you'l come out the other side fine. Grinding knees are part of life past a certain point. Luck! |
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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C. Smith
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 6:41am |
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Wow, I strongly disagree with this statement. Unless you have a physical/medical condition, or are in a different phase of specific programming, you should be squatting ATG. We just had this discussion in my log last week actually. And powerlifters NEVER squat ATG. Oly lifters, yes. Powerlifters, no. |
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 7:44am |
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Craig - just different backgrounds I guess.
I have NEVER EVER squatted like that in my life and never ever will .I saw the discussion last week and stayed out ![]() Change plifter to olylifter - one for you ![]() BUT...Capt - do you see how I'm walking you up to strong? |
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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C. Smith
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 8:10am |
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Obv.
Ok. My next question is why? Careful... |
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Hapy
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 9:24am |
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my 2 cents -
I had horrible knee pain from when I was about 15 until about 35 when I finally started squatting ATG. (deteriorated cartilage from playing basketball and aggressive bump skiing at 220lb+) Only thing now that keeps the knees from aching is relatively heavy (for me) ATG back squats. |
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C. Smith
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 9:50am |
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No surprise there. That's actually pretty common for people who start squatting atg. |
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 10:03am |
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Going to try My high school and college and pro coaches were 1/4 squat guys and by my 2nd year at Texas I was 2 knee operations in and by my 3rd year in the pros 6 operations in. So maybe it's cause it makes my panties ride up?
Old dawg learnin' a new one. |
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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captjamie
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 10:43am |
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Thanks for all of the input, Matt thanks for the link I saw that video last night while trying to learn a little bit about knees. Sad as it is to say but oh so true, I know more about the structural stability and systems of my home than I do about my body. Not sure if I made this point in my orginal question but my knees feel a hell of a lot better after the pop when doing ATG squats. This morning after my run I decided that I felt pretty good and wanted to try some front squats with weight. So picked up my bar with 65lbs (no much I know but thats about all the weight plates I got so far) and did 10 ATG, and it felt GREAT.
Cheers mates. |
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 11:46am |
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OK . Did em as low as I could make my knees go - just a broomstick - fronts and backs. ouch took several tries to get down there afap - and it ain't atg , but my best first try. Did maybe 20 of each looking for depth. then I trained 4 ppl . Just did a front and a back - stick again - and sank waay down(er) w NO PAIN. wowifeellikeabigdummassissygirlwhosbeenmissingtheboatfor38ye ars
but I feel like a 13 year old just getting under his first bar. Thanks guys |
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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brandell
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 12:34pm |
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Grrr now I am wanting to do that, but most likely shouldn't
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captjamie
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 12:37pm |
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Way to go Mike
. Who says us old dawgs can't learn new tricks!Push myself to hard and maybe to fast tonight was doing front and back squats with 65 lbs 10 each set, during the second of fronts I think I may have pulled my hamstring on the left leg. Got Ice on it now, so hope all is well tomorrow.Cheers mates PS- really just needed an excuse for a beer ![]() |
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C. Smith
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Posted: 2/25/11 at 1:21pm |
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Hapy
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Posted: 2/26/11 at 2:12am |
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another ATG convert! woohoo!
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brandell
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Posted: 2/26/11 at 3:59am |
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You know I think I am going to try Dan John's Goblet squats as a warmup before every lifting session. That might be a way to start getting the knee to work through that full ROM and see how it goes.
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 2/26/11 at 5:21am |
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Brian - I plan on using these as warm ups - couple sets of 10 or so. Felt much better w. fronts vs backs. |
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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brandell
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Posted: 2/26/11 at 5:22am |
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Thanks Mike, I think I am gonna have to give it a try. You coming up for Iron Thistle?
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Mr. Natural
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Posted: 3/07/11 at 3:02am |
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Hey Baab, any updates on this? Based on your rec (and Brandell and the cool one) I tried ATG fronts again, first time in a few years. Reps with 135# were fine, but Saturday I did 225# - ouch! Knees are sore and arthritic and achey again (this was after heavy pow snatches, but pretty sure it was the fronts).
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 3/07/11 at 5:44am |
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Dave - I have stayed light w. these and all ok. Light is 135 or under and high(er) reps like 8-10. Heavier just hurts and I have stuck w. fronts - easier for me to get down and lighter weight has more effect. Luck!
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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Mr. Natural
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Posted: 3/07/11 at 7:57am |
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Thanks for the wisdom. 135 and under it is. Weird thing is that, despite not squatting much the last few years my snatches are better than ever. Hit 225# for a triple on Saturday, and that's with me being down 10+ lbs. Must be all that clean living! |
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Skullsplitter
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Posted: 3/08/11 at 9:13am |
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I agree with getting down for the squats. I have been doing front and back
squats deeper and the power snatch and power clean are moving again. I am also doing overhead squats. Did a set of 185 lbs x 3 with the overhead squat today and the cracking and popping from my shoulders, sacrum and knees was deafening! But they felt great afterward. Don't let the age gig be an excuse. As a 48 year old who still has illusions of grandeur the deep squats are a ticket back to better lifts and throws. Bill |
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"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 3/08/11 at 11:42am |
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And doing short "sprints" in various agility styles - fountain of youth for athleticism. Isn't it nice to be the lab rats for masters training? |
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51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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Skullsplitter
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Posted: 3/08/11 at 1:47pm |
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Oh yeah Mike. Shuttle runs of all types. When I am looking for a big deadlift I
up the 40 yard sprints as explosive strength is explosive strength, regardless of where it comes from. Back to the lab of Clan McRat! Seriously, we all have goals and if I believe I can reach them I will continue to strive. Bill |
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"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"
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Mr. Natural
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Posted: 3/09/11 at 2:05am |
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Agree on the sprints. Those and some light step-ups are all I've been doing for the legs. I'll be an old fart myself next year, anything that lets me keep up with the kids without crippling myself = win.
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captjamie
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Posted: 3/10/11 at 1:57pm |
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So last night I am doing my workout and I decide to add some weight to my squats (I can only put 95lbs on my bar, it's all the weights i got right now) I put 85 lbs on and do 3 front and 3 back squats and it feels great. I had intended to up it to 95 during my third and last set. From the squats I start doing some lunges 1o left no prob. THEN on the 3rd right lunge bang goes the right knee and down I go. f@#$ did it hurt, so I try some ATG squats with just a bar for balance no noise and no pain, but when I walk I got pain in the knee What the heck is going on? Hurt llike hell climbing the stairs after. Anyone got any ideas.
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Sammy68123
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Posted: 3/12/11 at 7:38am |
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Were you doing lunges with the weight or with no additional weight? Forward type lunges, correct? Not to the side? It seems like your right leg was not as strong as the left (not unusual with right handed people--they are left-legged). That could be related to a number of issues in the hips and low back: the right knee just was the part of the chain that failed. I'm not practicing medicine: if it is not improving after about a week of mindful squatting, I'd suggest you visit a physician to check and rule out anything more serious. If your knee failed without a twisting action in your fall, you probably will come back faster: you may have strained a muscle. A twist might have injured 1 or more knee ligaments. Let us know how it comes out! Teresa Merrick, Ph.D./Bellevue, NE |
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brandell
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Posted: 3/14/11 at 2:19am |
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Yeah Capt please get an orthopod to look at that puppy.
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captjamie
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Posted: 3/15/11 at 2:34pm |
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No weight and forward only lunges, there was no swelling of the knee but Thursday night I did ice it. Friday AM it was still a little sore but not bad and I did my normal morning run and stretching, no work out Friday night due to other commitments. Saturday AM did a good run and early afternoon did my normal weight workout with no problems, however I did not do any lunges. I did a lot of walking around on Sunday with my wife and have had no pain since then. Not sure if I just have a weak spot in my right knee or not. Teresa thanks for the input BTW I'm a lefty.
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