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28WFD form?

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Ryan Nielson View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10/21/09 at 5:28am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFY48bzdsrI

Hey guys I wanted to post this up for critique on here. I have not made great progress and I think my form is screwy, not much improvement or consistency on this this year. I am throwing about 46 feet on here and I hope I can find one thing to work on or fix that would put me over 50. Thanks for any help.

http://www.youtube.com/idahoryan23
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Wayne Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/09 at 6:56am
One thing for sure:  you're too upright through the whole thing.  As I've suggested to various people, sink into the first turn, so you start the sprint nice and low.  Keep that until you arrive at the trig and come up with the weight.  That should get you over 50'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S McCracken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/09 at 1:49pm

Originally posted by Wayne Hill Wayne Hill wrote:

One thing for sure:  you're too upright through the whole thing.  As I've suggested to various people, sink into the first turn, so you start the sprint nice and low.  Keep that until you arrive at the trig and come up with the weight.  That should get you over 50'.

Also work on relpaceing your feet on your first turn, its also real wide tighten up your stance a bit. dont forget to turn your palm to the sky just before your release. Its coming out of your hand abit side ways.

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West View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote West Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/09 at 2:18pm

yes to the previous, and when you release, dont look down at all. you need to look up and out.....and dont land closed off.

 

have fun taking all these tips at once. its not easy to do

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Mr. Natural View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Natural Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/09 at 1:30am

Why are you practicing in a kilt... in what looks to be sepia-toned Hell?

For now, forget about using two spins. In fact, from now through the spring you are not allowed to use more than one spin, ever.

For your next practice, and for every practice from now on, take 10-15 throws using ONE spin. Make sure they're all from the same area (use a toeboard or a line in the grass) and use a towel or bottle or something to mark the longest throw. Go all out, full on balls hard on each throw, just like you would in competition. For each throw, play around with your technique and try doing something a little different (cast it higher or lower, sink your legs more or less, more or less speed etc.) Figure out what works to make the weight go farther. Eventually you will figure out how to get a long pull using your legs and getting good lift. Once you get a feel for what a good pull feels like, drill that sucker until you can do it in your sleep.

Once you can throw your current PR with one spin, then you can start using two.

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Coach Mac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coach Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/09 at 1:43am
Originally posted by Mr. Natural Mr. Natural wrote:

Why are you practicing in a kilt... in what looks to be sepia-toned Hell?

For now, forget about using two spins. In fact, from now through the spring you are not allowed to use more than one spin, ever.

For your next practice, and for every practice from now on, take 10-15 throws using ONE spin. Make sure they're all from the same area (use a toeboard or a line in the grass) and use a towel or bottle or something to mark the longest throw. Go all out, full on balls hard on each throw, just like you would in competition. For each throw, play around with your technique and try doing something a little different (cast it higher or lower, sink your legs more or less, more or less speed etc.) Figure out what works to make the weight go farther. Eventually you will figure out how to get a long pull using your legs and getting good lift. Once you get a feel for what a good pull feels like, drill that sucker until you can do it in your sleep.

Once you can throw your current PR with one spin, then you can start using two.

Ryan and DAVE

Ryan- find an Olympic Bar (or 28-lb wt) and hold it over your head (ARMS STRAIGHT) and try the movement.  SUPER SLOW MO...then prgressi ly faster .  This will improve your posture and FEEL.

Your Cast (notice on the backswing you almost spank your butt and this makes the wt go way UP.  PULL  the wt back so it gets AWAY from your spine (center of mass) which will create a bigger RADIUS on the backswing. 

IF you have access too sand...practice your start in barefeet....the sand will help you SINK and provide a HELLACIOUS work out.

NOTE: you should ALWAYS be in a posture too JUMP straight up throughout the movement !!!

 

Dave (ol buddy)  I found the sarcasm key (its up above ...just left of the underlined_U )...political sarcasm is the best.  Now how can I get religion into this ? 

Oh YEAH...the Church of the Holy One Turners...   As an attorney you have to realize the tax benifits from that ???

Have a GREAT Day !
Rob " Coach Mac " Mac Kay
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Ryan Nielson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Nielson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/09 at 4:01am

All my video captures are coming out sepia tone right now till I can get a new capture card. It looks kinda cool though. Thanks for the input from everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/idahoryan23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M-BAAB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/09 at 1:44pm
R - may I also suggest line drills . When you get totally tired of one - turns somewhere around ......oh..... March, start line drills 5 x 5 working on ridiculously good form. Watch videos of Dave = long and loose and slinging that booger. Another way to describe what Dave is dracoinally(?) ordering you to do is to learn to sling that bugger as a fast as possible around and up from as far behind you as possible. I'll make a prediction that if you follow this advice , it will take you periously close to 60
51 , 72 and 15 at 50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lost-N-Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/09 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Mr. Natural Mr. Natural wrote:

For now, forget about using two spins. In fact, from now through the spring you are not allowed to use more than one spin, ever.

 

Well Ryan I guess this means I won't see you at the FROZEN STONES Jan 2nd then.  Looks like you have been ordered to practice until spring. 

Good news is I will take a lot of this advice and put it into my winter training.  When the snow is 2ft deep outside I can be in the gym practicing line drills on the basketball court.  Just for fun I will knock down a few basketball players.

Laughter is the shock absorber that eases the blows of life.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/09 at 10:32am

Push the weight past, catch it, push it past again, catch it, stand and deliver. Harder you push, the faster the weight will turn. The faster the weight turns the further it will go. Hold the middle with your body (balance - use Coaches bar drill on the shoulders or over head) keep the feet turning with a long relaxed arm. If you are off balance you will slow down by trying to gain control. Stay down on bent legs so they can turn, work, and explode at the finish. Build speed through the throw.

You are just turning with the weight. You can only turn the weight so fast with your body. Make the weight work for you by pushing it past and trying to catch it. Much faster than dragging it around. Requires less strength!

Watch Ryan V. & Matt S. tech. There is a lot to see/learn in their throws. Keep working on the right things not what appears to make you throw far short term.

Good Luck!

 

Steve

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vonguinness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonguinness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/09 at 1:19pm
i can tell you one thing, dont do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YxpIJNebik

i recorded myself today to maybe learn something from it, well, i was having kind of a crappy day overall, and it all culminated in this throw....although i have watched the video over and over and cant stop laughing at myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lost-N-Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/09 at 4:04pm
I am curious if I could get some input of the height of the weight during the turns.  I tend to push the weight up high like in this video.  I have had people tell me to keep it closer to shoulder height during my turns and just vary the height slightly on the catch.  What can I do to aid myself in keeping the weight from running through such a high and low arc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote West Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/09 at 6:31pm
well, I have also been told to keep it around shoulder height.  I would recommend practice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coach Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/09 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by SteveD SteveD wrote:

Push the weight past, catch it, push it past again, catch it, stand and deliver. Harder you push, the faster the weight will turn. The faster the weight turns the further it will go. Hold the middle with your body (balance - use Coaches bar drill on the shoulders or over head) keep the feet turning with a long relaxed arm. If you are off balance you will slow down by trying to gain control. Stay down on bent legs so they can turn, work, and explode at the finish. Build speed through the throw.

You are just turning with the weight. You can only turn the weight so fast with your body. Make the weight work for you by pushing it past and trying to catch it. Much faster than dragging it around. Requires less strength!

Watch Ryan V. & Matt S. tech. There is a lot to see/learn in their throws. Keep working on the right things not what appears to make you throw far short term.

Good Luck!

 

Steve

 

Steve...I HATE it when you post because you give all the SECRETS away in such a succint manner.  Hope all is well !

Have a GREAT Day !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/09 at 6:56am
Two things stand out to me....

1. don't look down, especially at the end of your release. Look up and out. You (I do the same thing) are throwing line drives. Remember that you want that thing to head away from you at about a 45 degree angle.

This is what I use my single-turn drills for, personally...to drill the release to throw high.

2. What Wayne Hill wrote...bend those knees and get down!

Do single spin and release drills. These are drills where all you do is the first part of the first spin. You reverse your feet, and release the weight into the ground behind you. The goal of this drill is to finish the movement with your knees bent, maybe 60% of your weight on your back foot/leg, balanced, and ready to blast into the second spin from the power position.

My two cents...from someone who throws about as far as you do! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Nielson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/09 at 11:02am
It's hard to practice all these things at once but. I have went back to practicing a one spin 3 times a week 10-15 throws. It was my 3rd session today doing this and something REALLY clicked beyond my expectations on one of my last throws I think I figured out how to stay very low even after my feet had landed from the turn and when I did this I cranked one out right at 50 feet with a one spin. I'm going to keep this regiment up every week as long as there's not too much snow on the ground until it's second nature to me and I'm throwing 50 with one spin all the time. My best competition throw with 2 spin is only 45 so I'm shocked by this.

I want more than anything to surprise everyone with a sudden 10+ foot improvement beginning of the season that would be awesome.

I'm going to try the drills with a barbell over my head as well to work on proper posture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lost-N-Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/09 at 7:17pm
That is great Ryan...... Now I need to get out and practice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/09 at 6:58am
Originally posted by Ryan Nielson Ryan Nielson wrote:

.....I cranked one out right at 50 feet with a one spin. I'm going to keep this regiment up every week as long as there's not too much snow on the ground until it's second nature to me and I'm throwing 50 with one spin all the time. My best competition throw with 2 spin is only 45 so I'm shocked by this.



Hmmm... I'm thinking there are more one-spin practices in my future, then!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/09 at 2:13pm

One more thing that may help here is to think about patience and rhythm in the throw. It is easy to get all worked up and turn like a Tazmanian Devil. I have seen guys turn so fast I swore they would 

disappear up there own butt.

At the back when you start, feel the weight pendulum at the bottom and use the rhythm you establish as a starting point. Set the throw up with your initial slings at the back. If the start is set up wrong you will be fighting the weight throughout the throw and your high & low points will be off.

Turn the weight in to the trig setting up the first turn (High point). Then feel the weight drop in to the middle (low point). Wait for it as you keep turning the feet. Push the weight towards the board while staying down on the legs. Catch the weight at the high point with the feet back down on the turf. Wait with the body as you push the weight around with your arm, hip, & torso feeling it sling through the bottom. Right foot is the motor to the throw. Drive the weight through the bottom to the high point again.

There is a rhythm to the throw with tempo from the high point through the bottom back to the high point. When you practice you want to have some rhythm throw days where you want to feel the weight working along with your feet.  All you are trying to feel is the weight turning and your feet pushing it around with a certain tempo. You may eventually feel how certain rhythms will deliver certain distances. A good drill is to set out 4 markers at 5 foot increments with the last at a goal distance. Take 5 throws at each mark building up to the last marker. Feel the rhythm of the throw that is required to reach the marker. I will be curious if after a few practices what the result is.

The feet and body posture will take you a long way in the throws.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Bogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/09 at 10:58pm

Wire Hammer Thrower.........

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/09 at 10:45am

You gotta give me a little crdit as a HG thrower...despite my past enfluences Is this a little over the top?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Bogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/09 at 12:04am

No,  not at all.  The 28 is the closest throw to the wire Hammer IMO.  And when you describe the techinique I can hear and feel your Hammer throwing background in it.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coach Mac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/09 at 6:48am

Not too diminish either of Steves throws (Olympic hammer and HG)   Probably his highest compliment is from the World Record Holder in the 35-Wt Throw (and American Hammer Throw Record holder Lance Deal)

" I could NEVER beat Dering in the Pud Throws "....so pay attention to what this guy is saying as its not his first rodeo ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/09 at 7:30am
That's nice of Lance to say but at the time it didn't matter how far a PUD went! Damn guy was breaking the weight record every day in practice while the rest of us were trying to pull the weight out of the muck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jlmreddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/09 at 2:58pm
Excellent treatise Steve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deakion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/09 at 3:02am
Originally posted by M-BAAB M-BAAB wrote:

R - may I also suggest line drills


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillieR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/09 at 10:03am

 

Can I make a couple of suggestions.

 The biggest problem I think you have is the movement ( or non movement) of the right foot on delivery. The right foot must turn.  Your foot is stationary and you are flat. Work on drills to turn on the toe. The foot must keep on turning. To get your hip to the front you are lifting the right foot early. You can’t effectively apply force to the weight when you are on one foot. As suggest do drills such as line drills to correct the movement.

I think you have blocked yourself with the left foot. Not easy to see from the angle.

There is something not quite right in your arm action. Like many novices you tend to swing the weight up. Try find a solid end position where the right shoulder end under the chin.

Willier
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Nielson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/09 at 8:56am
Thanks. I'm still working on this. I think have picked up new bad habits and went backwards in my distance i'm throwing at, now cannot break 44 foot in an entire practice. I think i'm practicing too much and allowing bad habits to become ingrained in me. It's darn frustrating. My stones are improving a lot lately so that keeps the spirit up. I think the line drills are something I will add in a lot I was throwing better when I was doing a lot of those.
http://www.youtube.com/idahoryan23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/09 at 1:16pm

Ryan,

Its winter! Don't worry about distance so much as working on tech. and breaking bad habits. Think more about your drills and what you need to do to set yourself up for success later in the year. Keep it to one or two things that are preventing you from reaching the next level. I've heard it can take up to 500 throws to break a bad habit. Keep at it and stay positive about what is working and the distance will come.

Steve

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