Deadlifts ???

Okay , so I got the importance of front squats ,,, now - how about the deadlift , I haven't done much deadlifting since powerlifting days . How do they fit in with throwing ?? Or is it just core work ?

Thanks again for all the help .

Bret

I will have to agree with Peter on this one. Although I feel like variations of the deadlift or "pulls" are pretty throws specific, I have probably done 10-20 actual deadlifts in the last 10 years (Powerlifting meet attempts included). Would a higher maximum DL help my throws? well maybe, but the DL just does not "feel" like throwing to me.

I do feel, however, that a significant amount of pulling movements need to be done (cleans, snatches, hi pulls) in order to develop rate of force, especially of the posterior chain. Typical heavy deadlifts are good for tendon strength, but are not really applicable for throws IMHO. One case however, when heavy DL would seem to be needed for throws is if the thrower was relatively week to start with, and nneded just more raw strength to handle the impliments. That does not seem like it would be an issue for most of the big dogs on this forum. I think you have to have a decent DL (mid 300's) to be pretty effective at the throws. If not the 56 will just be too brutal on the body. I, myslef, pulled 555 at 216bw with little or no deadlifting in training. True, we were doing snatch pulls from a 2 second pause below the knee with 352lb., so the back was strong, but I NEVER went over 440 in any kind of pull in the gym in 10 years. This is just my finding, I am sure there are folks that heavy deads work well for.

(Disclaimer- Jason Lawson dealifted 810lb. and threw 17' in the WOB the first day he tried it. He also cleaned 400+, so you CAN over power it if you are THAT strong!)

 Maybe I will start doing them and get my standing wob over 16'. If one was do do many deads, and did not have the proper coaching or inclination to do explosive olympic type pulls, I would suggest speed deads with bands, optimally using the Tendo Unit (or some other similar device) to measure speed, in order to keep POWER as the main objective.

Just my 2 cents,

Bert

Regardless of the effectiveness of specific lifts, I think we should take a page from Myles' book and do the lifts you like to do. Myles likes to pull heavy...great, if that makes him feel good and enjoy himself..by all means, knock it out. There is a certian amount of animal you have to have to make heavy object raise, impliments go far etc. Deadlifts are great for finding and honing "the animal" inside you.

As a side note, although they have not been a staple of my training for the last 10 years or so, being the son of Richard Sorin (who loved heavy deadlifts and was USPF National Champ), I have been required be able to deadlift double body weight in order to carry the family name as man instead of a boy. A feat I am proud to say I have completed since 8 years old with my 112lb. DL at 56lb. BW.

Bar loaded,

Bert

Silverback wrote:   Quit thinking so much, quit charting, quit note taking, quit talking and go do something heavy.

Werd.

I am going to the gym to squat and pay homage to the Sorinex racks at the YMCA tonight.  I hope in some of that power red paint is something to hurt my legs and lower back and make them swell up.  Now to find that Romanian cat and get fired up. 

The Cookster is proof that pullin makes you pretty. 

Okay, I have to get in on this one.  I know I throw better when I am stronger and deadlifts are my way of getting there along with heavy squats.  If I had the joint flexibility to catch a heavy clean again, that would be another way to go, as a I was an Olympic lifter and had a 400+ C&J. But that was 20 years ago. Power snatches are a great way to augment the strength/speed for me without the bar crashing onto me.  But, for guys with mileage on their joints or who have not had the time to become proficient at the cleans/snathces (which takes thousands of reps to achieve) deadlifts are a quick way to get stronger.  It is amusing too, that no one talks about doing the deadlifts dynamically with a straight bar, ie, fast deadlifts.  I do know that our current World Champion touts the trap bar jump shrug, a varient of a deadlift, for throwing.  Why not do deadlifts with dynamic variations during different times of the year, heavier in the off-season and faster/lighter during the season.  For most of the guys reading this board, that is probably a good way to look at this.

Now for the other perenial favorite topics, spin vs. stand and hook grip.

Sorry about being a little terse yesterday.  It has been a long tough winter, I appoligize if I offended anyone. 

Used the Sorinex Hydraulic Jack Racks at the gym last night.  I feel so much better. 

Ok, not to beat the deadlift horse to death or anything, but hears another d-lift question. I like to do my deads about once a week (just to feel heavy every now and then) but I'm questioning my form.

  I usually get a wider than shoulder-widthstance with my grip a little narrower (arms coming down inside my knees). I feel like I can move more weight this way.  

  Here's my question: I'm thinking if I move my stance in to shoulder width, with my grip a little wider (arms coming down outside of my knees) I think it might work my back a bit more, but i I'd have to cut back the weight considerably. I'm wondering which would be more benificial to my "I'm going to kill the WOB this year" workout.

 Anyone have any prefrences on stances?

J Payne wrote: Ok, not to beat the deadlift horse to death or anything, but hears another d-lift question. I like to do my deads about once a week (just to feel heavy every now and then) but I'm questioning my form.   I usually get a wider than shoulder-widthstance with my grip a little narrower (arms coming down inside my knees). I feel like I can move more weight this way.     Here's my question: I'm thinking if I move my stance in to shoulder width, with my grip a little wider (arms coming down outside of my knees) I think it might work my back a bit more, but i I'd have to cut back the weight considerably. I'm wondering which would be more benificial to my "I'm going to kill the WOB this year" workout.  Anyone have any prefrences on stances?

I prefer conventional (narrow stance, hands outside legs) vs. sumo (wide stance, hands inside legs).  With sumo you should start low and keep your back straight and squeeze the bar off the floor with your legs.  With conventional it is more lower back.  You should start by trying to drive your feet thru the floor and then once the bar clears your knees, shoot your hips forward and your shoulders back.  The Conv. style will have more carry over for WOB.  I also like hang cleans for WOB (but I am pretty new to throwing so take with a grain of salt)

then you feel sumo pulls carry over more for WOB?  Please explain...

I was not saying conv. dl is the single best exercise for WOB, but in my limited experience, my conv. dl pull is a lot closer to my WOB movement than my sumo dl

in your limited experience...LOL  You throw the 56 as far as I throw the 28!

YMMV?  What does that stand for?

Checked out your website and it is now in the favorites file, will take more time to dig thru it after Church.  After watching your sumo dl I can see what you are saying.