"Bill Starr Deadlifts" and John Smith

I agree with doing 50% speed days, but I dont agree with not deadlifting. as long as you are not going over 85-90% of your max all the time you will be fine. just dont kill yourself week in and week out. I started doing brad gillinghams dead program 2 years ago and got great results and still use it. yes I know, what works for one person does not always work for others. but I dont know what I would do if I could not deadlift.

Jay,

Are you asking me or Ryan?  If it's me, I am not sure how to answer.  The post simply notes that top Olympic lifters who also deadlifted heavy occasionally were able to pull some very impressive deads. It must be noted that in those days Olympic lifters included a lot of heavy pulls in their program in addition to the full lifts and power variations. At the heavy end these pulls would basically be speed deadlifts into a full shrug, and obviously a squat clean is a lot heavier than a power clean, so a typical thrower's routine of squats, power cleans and push presses or bench presses would not be as effective for developing a heavy deadlift.

Not sure what else to say.  If you are interested in actually training your deadlift, I would ask Ryan about it, as I never do them and mine is very poor.

 

Jay, you could always try the Steve Justa method- 70% of your 1RM for 8-10 sets of 2-3 reps, or 20-25 singles if heavy work is out. Add weight when you can. i do the first option most of the time but keep the sets to 5-6.

Or ladders with a similar weight range, you could do 1-2-3, 1-3-5 or whatever feels good. Again, add weight when you can. No reps should be grinders.

If you went lighter, 55-60%, I'd say 8 sets of 3 speedy reps.

 

For me, heavy deads (90%+) are just too hard on the joints/spine but I find I can do more sets of lower reps in this range pretty easily.

 On the occasions when I feel up to going heavy, my strength is either up or consistent with the last test. At this point in my training life, that's ok with me... might not be for everyone else.

 

Ryan,

You misunderstood, I wasn't referring to you or your post, I was alluding to myself when I noted that John Smith was someone who knew what he was talking about regarding deadlift training.  As I made clear, it certainly isn't me.  I included John's post for the benefit of Jay, not in response to you.  I just muddied the waters so to speak by pointing out that, in my opinion, deadlifts aren't the most efficient way of improving one's power clean.  That isn't to say there is anything wrong with them, or that they don't have a place in some training programs, especially early in the training year or for those who need to build up their back strength.  I just prefer other variations.

 

 

The Simmons approach worked wonders for my lifting and still does when I apply it without much variation (meaning no throwing or cardio added).  Hard to use it with HG for me.  If it helps, I used the no deadlift approach for almost 8 months and went from 525 to a 605 easy meet lift.  I did his good morning variations, all kinds and heights of box squats, pullthrus, sled dragging, rev hypers and heavy ab work.  With all the extra work I knew my hips and back were strong anyway.  After that I did the pull sumo until the meet and then go conventional approach and added another 50lbs to the dead. Recovery is a huge issue for some when doing Westside work.  I have to be committed to pre-hab and tons of eating to handle it.  Environment is a huge factor in this too.  Pushing the max effort days would have been almost impossible without my training partners screaming at me mid-lift. That is another reason Craig lifting HUGE by himself in the pilates poon palace (with multi-colored climbing wall) is so impressive.  I know Ryan lifts big by himself too.

I used to read Bill Stars stuff in Perry Radar's magazine and loved it.  Iron man was so cool then, that little magazine with tons of stuff you could read for hours. 

There is no routine that you can pick up and do.  You can, but you have to use your mind to bend and optimize any routine or movements for you.  We all are different enough we need some adaptation, and the good guys have gotten to know themselves and what works for them.  Remember it is all just a science expieriment, so be good to your lab rat, you only get one. 

I have the article about the Bill Starr "No Dead - Deadlift Routine" and I had the opportunity to have Bill work with me when I was an Olympic lifter. He would visit Jack King and train at Jack's Gym, where I worked and trained when I was in college. We were O lifters but we were encouraged to get in a power lifting meet once a year.  We had national champions train at that gym and we looked like lifters from the sixties when O lifters did alot of pressing.

The routine is fairly straight forward. 

Day 1)

-Power clean 5x5 from the floor -no straps you sissys (that is 5x5 at the same weight, actually pretty tough)

-Clean high pulls - 3x5 from the floor - okay to strap up (same weight)

-Good mornings - Bill teaches low good mornings, as in bend your knees slightly and get your face as far down as possible - work up to 3x5 at the same weight

 

Day 2)

-Back squat - High Bar - work up to 3x5 at same weight

-Shrugs - done dynamically - make the plates rattle at the top - trust me a lighter weight with speed will make your traps ache - work up to top weight at 3x5 - actually straps preferred.  Fast bar movement allows for the traps to go up higher and stimulates/recruits more of the muscle group and in Bill's words "Deeper down into the trap tissue".  Bill's lifters always have big traps.   

Bent 0ver Rows - work up to a good set of 5 and put some speed on the bar

You can train this every other day and the only warning from Bill is to not do squats and good mornings on the same day.  He did allow for deadlifts about every 3 weeks with bar speed as the key.

I used this routine for about a month or two each year and it always helped my overall strength.  My C& J moved up quite a bit after I did a powerlifting meet as the heavy training really made me mentally more ready to move a heavy weight.  Bill also liked high weekly volume, as I was able to train up to 250,000 lbs a week for a period of time and this was brutal but effective.  I don't know if this is what you guys are looking for but this is the actual routine.